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Smiths Edward

S

smithsquared

Brummie Once Removed
Still struggling to track down my great grandfather, Edward Smith. According to various census information he was born in Birmingham in 1839, his fathers name was Samuel Smith who was an Auctioneer (born Surrey 1791). Cannot find any details of them in the 1841 census but I don't seem to be as good at this as you guys, would love to find out with some certainty what Edward's mothers name was since he seems to have remarried in 1845 to a 'Maria Hatton'.

Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

In the 1841 directory there is a Samuel smith, auctioneer at 1 Aston Rd, and in 1845 a Samuel Smith Licensee Rose & Crown and Auctioneer . 29 Gt Brook St
Mike
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Hi smithsquared
In 1841 at Aston Street transcribed as:
Same Smith aged 45 - can't really make out his occupation - no doubt someone will else or yourself may be able to decipher it.
Julia Smith aged 25
Same Smith aged 25
Edwd Smith aged 2
Sarah Hitchin aged 21

Suzanne

Edit: Is it possible that the Samuel Smith in the 1841 aged 45 is in fact Edward's grand father? and the Samuel Smith aged 25 is his father? I've looked at the 1851 and I know Edward is recorded as son of the samuel born circa 1796 but is it possible that Edward's parents Samuel and Julia had died by 1851? Just a thought - don't want to confuse your smith search any more:)
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

It looks like it begins with Ea and ends with g? eating house keeper?
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

In 1845 nos 2-3 Aston St are listed as William Whiston, dining rooms, which would fit with that
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

So perhaps Samuel had his finger in many pies (pardon the pun) and went from eating house keeper, to licensee and auctioneer? although Mike, you do say he is listed as an auctioneer in 1841. Would the Kelly's entry be slightly later in the year than the census?
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

The data from Pigotts 1841 directory (It isn't Kellys) could be spread over a long period, especially as this is an early directory. 1841 would be the publication date. Much of the data is likely to have been collected in 1840. As it is such an early directory some areas could be even earlier.
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Smithsquared

Just a little extra to place Samuel.

White's 1850 has a Samuel Smith Vict. & Auctioneer. Rose & Crown 25 Gt Brook St
As you know from the 1851 census, Samuel is at 16 Aston Rd and Slater's has at the same address in 1852, Samuel Smith, Auctioneer and Appraiser.

Suzanne
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

mikejee said:
The data from Pigotts 1841 directory (It isn't Kellys) could be spread over a long period, especially as this is an early directory. 1841 would be the publication date. Much of the data is likely to have been collected in 1840. As it is such an early directory some areas could be even earlier.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike.
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Suzanne/Mike
Working on the possible Samuel (the Elder) and Samuel (the younger) scenario. FamilySearch site threw up the following,
Samuel Ribbards (or Robberds) Smith
Baptism/Christening Date 08 May 1814
Birth Date 23 Dec 1813 (doesn't quite tie in with '25' in 1841, but quite close)
Baptism/Christening Place Carrs Lane Meeting-Independent, Birmingham.
Father's Name Samuel Smith
Mother's Name Elizabeth
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C07716-1, System Origin England-ODM, Source Film Number 825426

and the following marriage

Groom's Name Samuel Smith
Bride's Name Julia Pennerghrist
Marriage Date 29 Jun 1840
Marriage Place Aston Juxta Birmingham,Warwick,England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number M01168-4
System Origin England-ODM
Source Film Number 919800

What do you think?
Bob
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Hi Bob
I saw the Julia Pennerghrist marriage also. Regarding the younger Samuel's birth, on the 1841 census, both Samuels and Julia have N against whether born in this county and only Edward has a Y.

Suzanne
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Suzanne,
Oh dear, so that doesn't work, I will try and get Samuel's wedding certificate, (when he married Maria Hatton in 1845) and see if that gets me any further clues. I originally thought Edward's mother was called Elizabeth, but I can't recall where that came from now. Free BMD did give me a few Edwards born in/around Birmingham, they are listed as:
1) Edward, West Bromwich, Volume 18, Page 477
2)
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Whoops, cat sat on the Keyboard, try again,
Suzanne,
Oh dear, so that doesn't work, I will try and get Samuel's wedding certificate, (when he married Maria Hatton in 1845) and see if that gets me any further clues. I originally thought Edward's mother was called Elizabeth, but I can't recall where that came from now. Free BMD did give me a few Edwards born in/around Birmingham, they are listed as:
1) Edward, West Bromwich, Volume 18, Page 477
2) Edward, Meriden, Volume 16, Page 365
3) Edward, Birmingham, Volume 16, Page 303.
Do you have access to these records?
Bob
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Bob

You have just made me laugh out loud:) I'm just imagining the cat sitting on the key board:) I suppose it was quite cat-astrophic:)

I do have acccess to the indexes but wouldn't be able to give you any more detail than you have already. Was there something you wanted me to look at?

Suzanne

By the way, Bob, I wouldn't rule out the marriage of the Julia and Samuel you found. I think they maby be Edward's parents.
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Bob
Here's the reference for the marriage of Samuel and Julia. Samuel is I think a boot maker on the 1841. I know Edward cited Samuel the auctioneer as his father but if his parents died young maybe he came to think of his grandfather as his father?
1840 Aston AMJ 16 267 and the image does say Pennerghrist. Very unusual name I would have thought?

Suzanne

Wonder if Pennerghrist should be something like pendergrast? a search on A***y only comes up with one Pennerghrist and that's Julia so I think it may have been entered incorrectly.
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Suzanne,
Cat now fed and communication fully restored, I didn't know if there was any way of getting more detail on these entries or should I send off for the possible birth certificates and say I am only interested if the fathers name is 'Samuel'.
During the break, I found another Edward, Born W. Bromwich, Volume 18, Page 509.
Thanks
Bob
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Bob

It could be worth sending for them if you stipulate about the father. I would stick to the ones that say Birmingham/Aston and forget the West Brom ones for now as Edward is consistent with his birth place of Bham isn't he?

Did you ever find anymore of the Alfred Hatton Smith born to Maria and Samuel the elder?

Suzanne
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Suzanne,
Not yet chased Alfred, still on my list, I got a bit side tracked by surviving relatives, (who didn't respond), see Smith Wedding September1958 thread.
Family tree is now looking really good and must work out a way of posting it, really appreciate all the help the forum has given me.
Bob
 
Re: Still searching Smiths

Thanks for all the help todate, here's an update,

Good and bad news, sent off for Samuel Smith and Maria Hatton Wedding certificate and received it back last week. Few assumptions were confirmed, he was a widower, he was an Auctioneer and his fathers name was 'Samuel'. Bad news was that in the age column it states 'Full Age' for both of them so no help on dates of birth, also no place of birth.
No joy on the birth certificate for Edward Smith (born 1839), Birmingham Register said that 'Edward, Birmingham, Volume 16, Page 303' was not fathered by a Samuel (fee returned). They also said that Edward, Meriden, Volume 16, Page 365 would be handled by Solihull Register, my geography breaks down now, would someone born in Meriden classify themselves as born in Birmingham? Similarly I had two possibles in West Bromwich, same question would they classify themselves as born in Birmingham?

So once again I am a bit snookered on dear old Edward Smith (Born 1839 Birmingham, father Samuel) any ideas anyone?

Bob
 
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