Royal Engineers, Waterways And Railways Division, Ww1

[Sue McGowan]

I'm trying to find out if a company of R.E's were based in the Garrison Lane area particularly in December 1915. I'm looking for a soldier, Frank Whitting, 168591, later WR200291.

 

[sospiri]

I can't help you with the location of the Unit, but this is what Sue is obviously referring to. Anyone?
Maurice

 

[Sue McGowan]

Hello Maurice, thanks for your interest! I'm having difficulty finding any records of military personnel in the Garrison Lane area during WW1! If anyone has information on this it would be great as I'm using a process of elimination to find if Frank Whitting was around in December 1915. If he was then he's highly likely to be my friend's grandfather!

 

[sospiri]

Hello Sue,

A quick look at the 1911 Census tells me that he was probably Frank the son of Sarah living in Bristol in 1911. An assistant engineer involved in roadmaking, and there was certainly no Frank Whitting living in Birmingham in 1911.

The Midlands Historical Data server is currently down so I can't check whether he appears on the Absent Voters List. I'll check later.

Maurice

 

[Sue McGowan]

Hello Maurice! Thanks for keeping in touch! I'm hoping someone knows whether the R.E's were in the Garrison Lane area December 1915. It would narrow my search no end! I went to Birmingham Central Library yesterday to see if I could find out more but they have virtually nothing on WW1! They were very helpful there as they were able to tell me more about the women who worked in the munitions factories and how they coped with working full-time and child-care provision. We have information on Frank when he joined up and when he was de-mobbed but nothing in between! Frank did indeed come from Somerset and we think he emigrated to South Africa in the 30's according to the records of the steamship Carnarvon. I'm waiting to hear from the National Archives to see if they can find anything more - such a minefield! If anyone else seeks similar information they might like to keep in touch with me as I've found interesting information about the women who were working in these factories and how they coped with illegitimate births at the time. I'll keep in touch and let you know how I get on! Sue.

 

[paul stacey]

You must know the RE's motto, "First in, Last Out", and "Always There.".Paul

 

[sospiri]

Sue,

If Frank went out there and stayed out there, one of the best places I found for posting your query is the Cape Town South Africa Mailing List which you can join for free here:-

https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/ZAF/SOUTH-AFRICA-CAPE-TOWN.html

Whilst nowhere near as busy as it used to be, there are stilL some helpful people on there who know their way around the South African Archives. You just need to be patient. If he died or married there, there will be a record somewhere.

Maurice

 

[sospiri]

Sue,

Having taken a look at the Passenger Manifests, I presume you are referring to Mr. F. Whitting of 114 Taunton Road, Bridgewater, 51 year old Commercial Traveller sailing ex Southampton on the Warwick Castle to South Africa on 1 September 1933. I can find no other between 1925 and 1945. I have to say that it looks like a regular commercial trip rather than an emigration and he's probably on his way back a few weeks later. But the age and location are right and, of course, I could be wrong! Given that you have the address, it might we worth checking Somerset Record Office to see if they have him on an Electoral Roll shortly afterwards.

Maurice

 

[sospiri]

Sue,

I've done some more checking and it was a normal trip NOT emigration. He returned from Durban to Southampton on board the Carnarvon Castle arriving 3 July 1933 but the address he gave was 32 Hangingwater Road, Sheffield. This from Ancestry. There are also records of him travelling Bristol to Montreal on 26 July 1911 on board the Royal Edward aged 28 and travelling from Durban to London arriving 4 November 1914 on board the Norman aged 31. It seems he was quite a frequent traveller. Cancel my suggestion about Somerset Record Office as we know he was in Sheffield later in 1933. Intriguing!

Maurice

 

[Sue McGowan]

Dear Maurice, thankyou for looking into this for me! I thought that Frank might have settled in South Africa but maybe not so! I don't always have time to spend looking into this but you've been Such a help! just to let you know I work long hours for H.M.P. Onley near Rugby and finished last week's shift, 77 hrs. on nights! the information you've provided has been So useful and maybe to others who are looking for long lost relations! I hope to hear from the National Archives in the next two weeks to see what they've found! I'll keep in touch to let you know! just to say I was lucky to have 6 great uncles and 2 grandads come back from WW1 and my Dad and 4 brothers survive WW2! Speak soon, Sue McGowan.

 

[sospiri]

I can't find a death anywhere, so it is possible he died abroard. What I did find in the British Library Newspaper Archives are these two cuttings. The first seems particularly relevant and comes from the Western Daily Press dated 6 July 1915. The second, less so, from the Gloucestershire Echo dated 22 December 1915. Where you go from here, I am not sure. You may need to sit on this until more records come online, as is happening all the time. The Sheffield address may be just somewhere he stayed on his travels - I haven't checked it on the 1911 Census - could be just a boarding house.

Maurice

 

[Sue McGowan]

I can't find a death anywhere, so it is possible he died abroard. What I did find in the British Library Newspaper Archives are these two cuttings. The first seems particularly relevant and comes from the Western Daily Press dated 6 July 1915. The second, less so, from the Gloucestershire Echo dated 22 December 1915. Where you go from here, I am not sure. You may need to sit on this until more records come online, as is happening all the time. The Sheffield address may be just somewhere he stayed on his travels - I haven't checked it on the 1911 Census - could be just a boarding house.

Maurice

 

[sospiri]

Sue,

I don't envy you your job! I don't know if I or any other member will discover anything further, but it's always worth checking back periodically as sometimes new members pick up the name as part of a Google search and home in on the thread maybe weeks, months and occasionally years later.

Maurice

 

[Sue McGowan]

Dear Maurice, thankyou for looking into this for me and you've been such a help in helping to narrow things down! If I find any more about what happened I'll let you know, best wishes Sue.



'

'

 

[bewdley]

Hi I have found this medal and award roll record which gives another number for him - 13326, which led me to finding him being admitted (suffering from Nephritis - inflammation of the kidneys) to 2 Birmingham War H Northfield on 17 August 1915 – I have copied and pasted some info found on google re this hospital, which is on the outskirts of Birmingham. At least it places him in the area.

Hollymoor, Tessall Lane, which opened in 1905, became the 2nd Birmingham War Hospital (Northfield) with its first patients on July 5 1915 with initial accommodation for 640 patients. Later 946 beds were made available by erecting tents in the grounds. Patients would be brought from Rubery Station in motor ambulances and cars. Miss Buckingham became matron at Hollymoor. After January 1 1918 Hollymoor became the Birmingham Special Military Surgical Hospital for orthopaedic cases. Some of the earliest medical staff in this specialism were Americans. In December 1915 George Cadbury had provided the ‘Beeches’ as an auxiliary to the hospital with 40 beds at its height. The Blackwell Recovery Hospital, near Bromsgrove, was used for convalescence and could look after 112 men. A Ladies Committee provided many extras, including a hut where two films a week were shown. The Tramways Committee, Aston Villa and Birmingham City Football Club gave the patients free tickets. At the end of the war Hollymoor became a Ministry of Pensions hospital.

 

[sospiri]

Excellent news, Bewdley, and that ties in nicely with the Rifle Brigade cutting in my posting #11 and certainly puts him in Birmingham. Well done.

Maurice

 

[bewdley]

Probably a red herring and to throw a spanner in the works - 1955 electoral register has 2 entries for a Frank Whitting - Frank and Florence May Whitting living at 1243 Stratford Road, Birmingham. Frank also has a garage near 6 Cole Bank Road, Hall Green Ward in Birmingham (abode 1243 Stratford Road).


On a precautionary note there are 3 x Frank Whitting births around this time; the 1883 one is probably yours, but the others could throw you off track!!

Dec quarter 1877 Vol 10a page 49 Stockton (The district Stockton spans the boundaries of the counties of Co. Durham and North Riding of Yorkshire)

Mar quarter 1883 Vol 5c page 310 Williton (The district Williton is in the county of Somerset)

March quarter 1887 Vol 9c page 299 Ecclesall B (The district Ecclesall B. is an alternative name for Ecclesall Bierlow and it spans the boundaries of the counties of Derbyshire and West Riding of Yorkshire)

 

[sospiri]

Bewdley,

The 1935 Electoral Roll is actually Frank WHITTINGHAM - that particular day the Midlands Historical Data site was down, but I've checked the image since.

The birth entry is definitely the Williton one. All this proves he was in Birmingham, but I can't see that it proves that he actually fathered a child whilst in the city. We still don't know where he died, though with an affinity for South Africa he may well have returned there. I've only been given the information that is on this thread. He had six siblings on the 1891 Census and possibly descendants of them can answer some of these questions.

Maurice

 

[bewdley]

Hi Maurice I found the electoral roll entry I mentioned on Ancestry and have uploaded a copy (it definitely says Whitting), but of course this could be incorrectly transcribed.

There are some public trees on Ancestry that he appears on, but they haven’t got anything definite that would help Sue out.

You are right in saying this does not prove he fathered a child whilst in Birmingham. It would be interesting to find out what other information Sue has that has led her to him thus far.


I mentioned the other births if only to help Sue eliminate them from her enquiries as perhaps one born in Yorkshire was one who returned from abroad to an address in Sheffield and not the one born in Somerset, though the evidence so far seems to point to the Somerset FW.

FW left London on 16th Jan 1915 bound for Algoa, South Africa and gives his Country of Intended Residence as S Africa, occupation manager, aged 31.

Yet he was back by 6th July 1915 and enlisted in the 13th Battalion, Rifle Brigade as your post #11.

As you mentioned in your previous posts FW left Capetown arriving back in England on 3 July 1933 on the Carnarvon Castle giving his address as 32 Hangingwater Road, Ranmoor, Sheffield. Occupation commercial traveller. Interestingly under column 9 he has put his intended future permanent residence as “other parts of the British Empire”.

Then on the 1 September 1933 he returned to South Africa on the Warwick Castle. Address given was 114 Taunton Road, Bridgewater. Again he is a commercial traveller aged 51 he gives his Country of Intended Residence as South Africa.

I wonder what event brought him home for these 2 months.

There are huge gaps in his timeline, but as you say as more records become available online they should help to fill these up.

 

[sospiri]

Bewdley,

My aplogies, and to Sue, yes, the image does say WHITTING on the Electoral Roll. However, today number 1243 is the Hall Green Conservative and Unionist Club. Was it so in 1935? And was Frank Whitting by any chance the steward? The 1933 Directory shows number 1243 occupied by Charles Henry FRANKLIN, dressmaker. The next one online is 1936 and that shows it as the Conservative Club, but does not list a manager or steward. And he's not listed in the Private Residents section of the same Directory (2nd picture). It seems that Sue might best approach the current Club Secretary and see what records, if any, they keep from those early years.

Maurice

 

[mikejee]

If you look at that address in the1939 electoral roll, then it shows as Frank Whittingham, so I suspect a misstranscribing by the council

 

[sospiri]

The mystery deepens, Mike. As I believe you've mentioned elsewhere, there is a gap in the British Library Newspapers after 1919 [?] -> 1939. Earlier in the century it appears that Sparkhill, Greet & Hall Green Club were one and met elsewhere. The next mention of the Hall Green Club is in 1939 and in 1945 they're advertising for an experienced Stewart & Stewardess. But we may be chasing ghosts and the Club could have been staffed by WHITTINGHAMs.

Maurice

 

[bewdley]

Maurice and Mike

You're both absolutely correct I've found 1243 Stratford Road on the 1939 register by adding Club Steward to the search engine and Frank WHITTINGHAM it is. At least that's him ruled out now.

 

[sospiri]

Brilliant, Bewdley, but this is looking as if he just went up in a puff of smoke! I've been through three sources of South African newspapers now and drawn a complete blank. I have yet to do the Australian & New Zealand Archives - I'll try and get around to that tomorrow. No one can see we don't at least try!

Maurice

 

[sospiri]

Well that took much shorter than expected! Not a single mention of a Frank WHITTING on the New Zealand Archives (Archway).
Five mentions on the National Archives of Australia - all for the same man, the one born in Eccleshaw Bierlow in 1887. In 1914 he joined the Australian Army and remained in that service until 1920. That seems to let him out as being the one in Birmingham.

Unless he somehow managed to get back to South Africa after 1933. Imperial Airways transported 50,000 passengers during the 1930s, some of which went to South Africa and for which no records are yet online. But we really are clutching straws now. Any other ideas?

Maurice

 

[bewdley]

Indeed we do try Maurice, I think it's amazing what's been revealed already - can't wait to see what tomorrow brings.

 

[bewdley]

I've just checked out Family Search too and can't find anything there - well done for eliminating the one born Eccleshaw Bierlow in 1887.

 

[sospiri]

Just checked Trove, the Australian newspaper archive, but despite claiming there were 2919 "Frank Whitting" entries, as soon as you ask the search engine to exclude "White" it amends that total to nil !

Just double-checked the CWGC, but only has a 22 year old who died in 1942.

My gut feeling is that he did return to South Africa, otherwise he's currently unsearchable online.

Maurice

 

[sospiri]

I think these are most unlikely, but on the 1935 Electoral Rolls for New South Wales are two Frank WHITTING entries:-
1. woodworker with wife Olga Irene at 7 Farnham Avenue, Watson, NSW, Australia
2 clerk with wife Matilda at Lennieville, Ernest Street, Lakemba, a suburb of Sydney.
Google Maps can't find the first at all, and can't find a house called Lennieville, but looking at Street View, they all seem to be post-war housing. No other years or other information.

EDIT: Both of these have Australian parents & can be found on the WW1 Embarkation Rolls - Please ignore.

EDIT 2: The Imperial War Museum is looking for him too!
https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/4723771

Maurice

 

[bewdley]

Wow - it would be wonderful if he could be traced.