Rfm Cecil John Riley - The Rifle Brigade 1920's

[mbenne]

I was interested in the recent posts regarding Walter Harrison Pte and wondered if anyone can shed any light on RFM Cecil John Riley.

My grandad, Harold Harris- DOB 04/01/02, Dudley, enlisted in the Rifle Brigade in Birmingham on 10th August 1921 and served in India with the Colours from Feb 1922 to April 1929 - Service no. 6910097. He told me that on the day he enlisted he went with a number of friends and he was the only one accepted. I still have his enlistment records and pay book. His term with the Colours was served in Peshawar and ended in Jullundur. His home address is not recorded in any documentation but his mothers address in 1926 is given as 2/64 High Street Bordesley. I have a few photographs from his time in India but one in particular has always intrigued me. All I know is that it relates to one of his friends who died in service. I don't know if this person enlisted at the same time or was just someone he befriended afterwards, though the sequencing of their service numbers may indicate when they could have met -my grandads number appears on the reverse of his enlistment papers and ends 097 and Cecil's ends 316 , though none of his papers record details of his company or battalion.

The inscription details in the photograph read...

6910316
RFM Cecil John Riley
1 Company
1st B2 The Rifle Brigade
Brn 23rd August 1902
23rd December 1924
Erected by his comrades of his company

I have no idea where the cemetery is (but assume it was India) or how he died - maybe sickness. From recollection I couldn't locate the birth of a Cecil Riley in the BDM register and could find nothing on the site for BACSA - British Association for Cemeteries in South Asia.

It would be really good to know more about Cecil and the Rifle brigade in India in 1920's and more importantly if a copy of the attached photo could be passed on to a surviving relative.

Not sure if this is the right place for this thread but it wasn't appropriate in ww1 or pre war conflicts.

 

[MWS]

There is a Cecil John Riley born in Rowley Regis in 1903.

There is also a record on the Registers of Soldiers' Effects on Ancestry for a Cecil John Riley died 1924. That should list who his possessions have gone to. And might list location and cause of death.

 

[MWS]

There is also a burial record for C Riley (died 1924) on the BASCA site - Jamrud Road cemetery, Peshawar. Possible could be him but no other info.

https://bacsa.frontis.co/bin/aps_detail.php?id=696292

 

[sospiri]

Nothing on the Forces War Records site either, though this is by far complete and most days ssees the addition of several more records.

Maurice

 

[pjmburns]

Re: the Cecil Riley on the Soldiers Effects on Ancestry: I have opened the record and at the moment cannot understand what comes up. It is not like the ones for soldiers killed in WW1

Perhaps someone can advise. I will have a closer look at the record book later to see if I can decipher it but lots of the pages look the same.

 

[MWS]

The attachment seems to have nothing to do with Cecil Riley. One of the documents is in German I think.

I've got a record for a soldier who died in 1922 which looks pretty much the same as WWI.

 

[pjmburns]

All the pages in looked at seemed the same but I will investigate more tomorrow and see if I can find the correct entry. His records should have survived as he was a professional soldier outside the wars.

 

[pjmburns]

There must be a gremlin at work as all the registers I have looked at now show the same image. I have reported it.
There is a Cecil John Riley (aged 7) born in Rowley Regis listed on the 1911 census with his parents Samuel and Emily, two brothers (Ivan aged 9 and Thomas aged 3) plus a sister Doris aged 5. Ivan died in 1958 but was married to Eunice Walters. Not sure about the others.

 

[mbenne]

There is also a burial record for C Riley (died 1924) on the BASCA site - Jamrud Road cemetery, Peshawar. Possible could be him but no other info.

https://bacsa.frontis.co/bin/aps_detail.php?id=696292

Thanks, I looked yesterday but perhaps should have used the advanced search.

 

[mbenne]

There is a Cecil John Riley born in Rowley Regis in 1903.

There is also a record on the Registers of Soldiers' Effects on Ancestry for a Cecil John Riley died 1924. That should list who his possessions have gone to. And might list location and cause of death.

My grandad was from the Staffs area so Rowley Regis seems credible as both their births would then have been recorded in Dudley district. I dont know where my gf was born as his army records dont give any address other than Dudley district and his mother's address in 1926. As for Cecil's DOB the inscription on the grave was specific. I did wonder whether he could have given a false dob in order to join up, a difference of 1 year would have made him around 18 years 11 months rather than actual 17 years 11 months based on an earliest Sept birth date in Dec Qtr 1903. Where there restrictions on signing up under 18 years of age?

 

[pjmburns]

I think in some cases you could sign up in peacetime with a parent's consent.

 

[mbenne]

Thanks to MWS I've looked up the Jamrud Road Cemetery, aka Gora Qabristan, where Cecil was buried. It is a colonial Christian cemetery. Another site suggests that some of the old colonial cemeteries receive no UK govt funding to maintain the graves, some of which have deteriorated through natural weathering and periodic desecration. Find a Grave lists only two entries for Jamrud Road so I may add the photo to this site to preserve his memory. I also found this interesting youtube video which gives more info ...........

I hope more can be found out about the elusive Cecil.

 

[mbenne]

I thought I'd add what few photos I have, may not be of interest but would otherwise sit in a box and never be seen. Maybe Cecil is among them? I used to ask my nan which one was my grandad. Unfortunately I only vaguely remember her telling me he appeared in the hockey photo and was wearing a helmet? I can only guess that he is the one leaning against the goal post. I have picture of my grandad in later years and am guessing he is the tallest of the two in the photo top right. Odd that none of their uniforms have military badges!

In the second set of photos there is a dog, top middle, which my grandad said was his pet - no idea what its name was.

 

[pjmburns]

Are you on Ancestry? There are a couple of trees with the Cecil born in Rowley Regis on them. The couple I looked at seem to say "death unknown". I am not sure how he fits into the trees though.

 

[mbenne]

Hi Janice. I only have access through the local library so wont be able to check straight away but seems interesting.

 

[pjmburns]

OK - I know that if you think it worthwhile you can usually message people on there. Let us know what happens if you decide to go that route. Last time I tried though it was such a distant relationship they weren't that keen. People's attitudes vary so much. I searched for Cecil and then clicked on public trees at the bottom.

 

[mbenne]

Thank you. I will let you know the outcome. I also found this piece on the the Green Jackets Site (Rifle Brigade) With photos from 1921. The last photo is of a parade with 1st Battalion, 1 Company in the background which is the same Company as appears on Cecil's memorial in 1922.

https://rgjmuseum.co.uk/photo-archive-item/india-1921/

 

[MWS]

The burial in Peshawar is only a possibility, I'd be cautious until there's some corroboration.

However, there appears to be a probate record on Ancestry and that might help.

 

[pjmburns]

I will try to find that. Soldiers effects still showing rubbish.

Update - it fits with the 1911 census record with possible Father being Samuel. Although occupation is different.

 

[MWS]

Seems likely and it does match the burial.

 

[pjmburns]

Finally Ancestry have sorted out the Soldiers Effects images. Cecil's money went to his Father Samuel.