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NewSt Station 2015

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A couple of points, if I may.

Yes, a massive mistake in the planning in the late 50's and implementation in the early 60's, especially when you look at Manchester; Liverpool; Leeds and more recently St. Pancras where they retained their original train sheds and refurbished them, wonderful in hindsight and what happened at New St. mirrored what the planners did across the rest of our City, slowly, carefully but surely being corrected.

The reference to Grand Central; This is the new name being given to the concourse above the station, the station remains as Birmingham New Street was what we were told on our 'behind the scenes' visit.

On a visit to the station just before the hand-over of phase one we were shown where they had broken through the slab and shown the extent of what will become the new Atrium and got an idea of just how much space is being created to open up the concourse and with a glass roof will look stunning. Phase one is nowhere near half of the new station, may just about be a third and is thus extremely restricted at the moment given the passenger numbers. Thre are no platforms completed yet, but the plan is to remove any waiting rooms on them to open them up as much as possible and keep everyone in relative comfort, and able to shop, in the new concourse above.

The entrances will also be improved on completion in 2015 and will also have the Metro to wizz everyone to Snow Hill where the proper station used to be....................but watch this space, I've heard of other plans!!!!
 
As mentioned before on this forum and reiterated by me occasionally by me I feel that Birmingham was "Butchered", in the late 50's and early 60's, and even now this are being done in a haphazardly fashion, you must be careful of course, because everyone has their opinion, but I do wish that these arrogant and sometimes pompous planners and architects put their proposed plans out for discussion and consultation more with the general public. Then actually take note of the comments and recommendations.
paul
 
paul stacey said:
As mentioned before on this forum and reiterated by me occasionally by me I feel that Birmingham was "Butchered", in the late 50's and early 60's, and even now this are being done in a haphazardly fashion, you must be careful of course, because everyone has their opinion, but I do wish that these arrogant and sometimes pompous planners and architects put their proposed plans out for discussion and consultation more with the general public. Then actually take note of the comments and recommendations.
paul
Click to expand...

Ditto.
 
It is perhaps worth mentioning that natural light was in abundance when New Street station was first constructed and when we had our own example of a great train shed care of Edward Cowper, of which, St Pancras' architect George Gilbert Scott said:

“An iron roof in its most normal condition is too spider-like a structure to be handsome, but with a very little attention this defect is obviated. The most wonderful specimen, probably, is that at the great Birmingham Station . . . ”

Of course at the onset of bombing in WW2 natural light was lost when the glazing was covered with hessian and tar only to be revealed again when the central lantern light was removed followed by the main structure in October 1945.

Victorian_New_Street.jpgNew Street 1927a.jpg

So maybe second time lucky?
 

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I am looking for an "early" map which shows the location of Snow Hill Station in relation to Gt. Charles Street.
In the 1865 period there was an on-going dispute between George Dowler and the Great Western Railway.
His factory, at 91 Gt. Charles Street, was producing a noxious smoke which affected the employees of the Snow Hill Station.
I would like to include a map of the area, showing the station and a possible location of the factory, in a history of George Dowler.
Any help, suggestions, or maps, would be appreciated.
 
Michael
Below is a large scale map (!:500) c 1889, of the small section of Gt Charles St showing no 91.Also a smaller scale map c 1866 where I have put a red dot as near as possible on that scale to the position of no. 91.

map_c_1889_showing_91_Gt_charles_St.jpg


map_c_1866_showing_approx_position_of_91_Gt_charles_St.jpg
 
Wrong sound ! It is listed in 1867 as a bell foundry, though George dis also have a wax vesta factory on another site
 
Dear Mike,

I agree, bells and whistles amongst other things

See: https://whistlemuseum.com/2008/11/2...eside-a-dowler-american-civil-war-button.aspx

Re: Michael Ball's need for maps etc. is a long shot in that Rail 45/9 at The National Archive at Kew is a longitudinal plan of the Birmingham to Wolverhampton Railway from Monmouth Street (later Snow Hill) to Winson Green dated 1848.

These old plans and contract drawings can often be a useful source of information concerning structures nearby the course of railway lines and help fill in the gap between Piggot Smith's 1825 survey and the OS First editions of the late 1880's.
 
Just one slightly pedantic comment, there is a historic precedent in using the term "Grand Central" for this complex even though it will only apply to the shopping area and not the station. The original conception of the station in the 1850's was for a station to be used for all the principal railway companies operating in the area, at the time that was the Midland Railway, the London North Western Railway and the Great Western Railway. Difficulties arose with getting the GWR on board, the company was still at that time one for having somewhat different ideas to all the other companies, not least of which was Broad Gauge mainline operation, anyway that is getting away from the point, the finalised station was a joint venture by MR and LNWR, on the original architects drawings it is refered to as.................... wait for it....................Birmingham Grand Central
 
Not took updates of the John Lewis site since late August (other than some shots from the Library of Birmingham in September).

Past and present - old and new ...

Dudley Street from Smallbrook Queensway

Market Hotel / Comfort Inn on the left



Theatre Approach from Smallbrook Queensway

The Old Rep at the bottom (Hinckley Street)




Onto Hill Street - back of The Crown and other old buildings on Station Street



 
Hill Street / Station Street corner (rear entrance of the station under John Lewis)





I wonder if fans of taking photos of Selfridges will take to John Lewis?

 
Hill Street entrance under John Lewis.

Queens Drive used to have an entrance here (remember all the taxis that used to be up here?)



Steps to the station

 
John Lewis after dark

corner of Hill Street and Station Street



I saw people using the steps on the Hill Street entrance to the station!
 
St Martin's Queensway view of the changes to the former concourse on the left






View from the car park on Swallow Street, of the construction of a new car park above the station!

 
Hi

Yep not an easy one this Thread. Unfortunately the part restoration coupled with some of the new are out of kilt. It was clear from the onset that the Main platforms will not be rebuilt. The Main façades around the Station incorporating John Lewis are the new bits.
As a fan of the previous layout ill reserve judgement. I dont remember all of the Original Station most of it was bombed with some strange buildings. Most of the old Midland Railway survived till the early 60,s. Always smelt musty though v Snow Hill. Its wait and see time

Mike Jenks
 
The only area of the station that suffered significant damage in the bombing was the overall glass trainshed on the old LNWR side of the station. The remains of this, which were blocking the through main lineswere of necessity demolished to keep the rail network operational to assist the war effort, or that is the official story, more like it would have been too costly and too much effort to reinstate
 
Is that correct - the actual track/platform layout remain the same as before this re-build. If so where is the increase in train capacity?

Mike.
 
Hi

Yep its purely a Cosmetic change to improve the passenger comfort long term.
The increase in Capacity is a big one. Long term HS2 to reduce passenger growth but thats
a guess in effect its hopeless grin and bear it.

Mike Jenks
 
I'm not aware there have been any claims of increased train capacity only of improved passenger capacity and experience.
 
Rail progress?
If you are following the debacle that is HS2 , when questioned and put under pressure the correspondent said that following the 'successful' implementation of HS2 the number of trains from New Street to London will be 3 an hour as opposed to the current 7? Now that's progress, it will free up some capacity at New Street to go anywhere except where the majority of people want to go!! Mind you that is before they announce a lack of money to build a new station and decide to run HS2 into New Street and remove several more 'paths' to anywhere South! That will be real progress? Cynical.......... me? Nah, not much!!
If the Government really wants to open up the country properly the last mainline built in Britain (presumably beacuse it was required) and co-incidentally the first one recommended for closure in the 'Reshaping' document should be re-built. The 'Great Central line' from London to the North via Leicester and Nottingham, the trackbed of which is mainly intact and was also originally built to continental gauge for eventually linking to the proposed channel tunnel, that was in the early 1900's, now that IS, sorry WAS progress!
 
hi

The HS2 Terminates at Curzon St if it comes. The mess we have now are largely Victorian routes modified
over decades of upgrades.
The problems of New St are well covered on the main New St Threads.
This thread is about the New Station

Mike Jenks
 
BilboC said:
If the Government really wants to open up the country properly the last mainline built in Britain (presumably beacuse it was required) and co-incidentally the first one recommended for closure in the 'Reshaping' document should be re-built. The 'Great Central line' from London to the North via Leicester and Nottingham, the trackbed of which is mainly intact and was also originally built to continental gauge for eventually linking to the proposed channel tunnel, that was in the early 1900's, now that IS, sorry WAS progress!
Click to expand...

You say " presumably because it was required" but I don't think that line WAS actually required.

It was built "on speculation" by the Northern rail companies so they could have a direct route to London that bypassed cities like Birmingham.

It was never that popular as it bypassed many of the main population areas and had problems taking passengers off existing routes to London.

By the time is was closed as part of the Beeching report it was mainly only carrying freight.

However whether some of it could be opened as part of HS2 is another matter. It ran into Marylebone, wheras HS2 will run into Euston. It also went to Rugby, Leicester, Nottingham, totally bypassing Birmingham.

More here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Central_Main_Line
 
guilbert53 said:
You say " presumably because it was required" but I don't think that line WAS actually required.

It was built "on speculation" by the Northern rail companies so they could have a direct route to London that bypassed cities like Birmingham.

It was never that popular as it bypassed many of the main population areas and had problems taking passengers off existing routes to London.

By the time is was closed as part of the Beeching report it was mainly only carrying freight.

However whether some of it could be opened as part of HS2 is another matter. It ran into Marylebone, wheras HS2 will run into Euston. It also went to Rugby, Leicester, Nottingham, totally bypassing Birmingham.

More here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Central_Main_Line
Click to expand...

I was under the impression the route was from a new terminal next to Moor Street Station to London St. Pancras where the link is to the channel tunnel where HS1 runs, now a stopping train as there were not enough passengers I assume.
 
BilboC said:
I was under the impression the route was from a new terminal next to Moor Street Station to London St. Pancras where the link is to the channel tunnel where HS1 runs, now a stopping train as there were not enough passengers I assume.
Click to expand...

The new HS2 station in Birmingham will indeed be next to Moor St station, between Moor St station and the old Curzon St station.

But the London end will go into Euston, though it may be some trains do go into St Pancras.

I believe some of the early plans did consider St Pancras but it will now be a hugely extended Euston with a "people mover" link between Euston and St Pancras.

As it says on Wikipedia - "As proposed in March 2010, the line would run from London Euston, mainly in tunnel, to an interchange with Crossrail west of London Paddington, then along the New North Main Line (Acton-Northolt Line)......."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_Speed_2
 
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