• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

Mountford’s Dining Rooms

A.Willoughby

master brummie
Mountfords Eating Houses

Anticipate no one has heard of Mountford's Dining Rooms which were situated at 9, Philip Street. Am told they were near to Worcester Street but that is open to conjecture.
I only became aware of the place due to three photographs I had off my late aunt. Her connection was solely as an employee or was there more to it? This was well prior to the First World War.
It all started when a twenty four year old Brummie named William Mountford started his business as a 'Eating House Keeper' in 1874.
Having started in business twelve months later or on the 9th May, 1875 at St. Judes he married a Annie Williams. Within a year they had a son William.
The 1881 census notes the family plus five employees living on the premises in Philip Street and business obviously flourished
My aunt started work at the Dining Rooms in about 1900 as a cook's assistant. The cook was a Rose Turner, nee Eades and she became the future mother in law to my aunt.
The photograph I attach was taken on a date between 1900 and 1914 and it shows what a successful business it must have become. By this time William Mountford was dead and it is his wife's name that adorns the windows. Note the name in large letters above the premises together with it's name on the glass of the large lamp above the door. You will see from the menu that roast beef was on offer on that day.
The metal food containers steaming in the window and in view of the passers by. The remainder of the window is coloured by a display of cauliflowers, which were possibly awaiting 'tomorrows' cooking.
I envisage the staff, dressed in the white smocks being hurried out by Mrs. Mountford, who is solely in a dark dress, to have the photograph taken. The last persons to leave the place would, I believe, be the cook and her assistant and there you see Mrs. Rose Turner and my aunt in that order to the left of Mountford, in the doorway.
Now the man. If my eyes do not deceive me, I am sure, on magnification he has the word 'Mountfords' across his cap. I cannot make out what is written the the sash across his chest (anyone with better eyesight?) Could he have been a doorman? There are a number of women working there and would a male be a sobering influence on other males resorting there from the locals in that area? They obviously posed the shop dog as well.
On the first floor it states that there are 'Supper Rooms' From this it would suggest that the staff worked very long hours to serve a demanding local clientel
The other two photographs shows Annie Mountford, Rose Turner and my aunt in the garden at the rear of the dining rooms and another of the three of them at a seaside location. Strange for an employee and two members of her staff in that age.
Mountford obviously gave my aunt a lean towards business acumen for she aubsequntly opened a wool shop and her future husband, a confectioners in Hockley in later years.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
What a really great photo, I imagine Mountfords would have had a lot of market traders as customers. I have a photocopy of a photo of Phillips Street which from the vehicles looks to date about the 1930s with possibly Mountfords on it, but the building it might be is obscured by a lorry.
 
I thought I was helping

I thought I'd help with regard to the uncertainty around the address using Kelly and I think I just added more to the puzzle? It shows a Mountfords in High Street?
 
Rod,
This particular line, William and Annie Mountford, are listed in the 1881 census as being at Philip Street.
I do know, via the 1841 census, that the Mountfords were a Birmingham family for William's parents were a Thomas (23)a Journey Chandler and Mary Ann (23) were living 4, New Terrace,.........? Birmingham There was another son Thomas aged 2 years. Every possibility that other children may have come on the scene subsequently and could Hannah be a wife/sister at the time of Kellys?
I do know that by the 1881 census Thomas is a fifty year old widower and a Tallow Chandler living in lodgings in Wrentham street with a Edward Mountford aged 27 years who I took to be his son. Far from the prosperity being enjoyed by his brother as a eating house keeper.

To digress, if I may further. I made reference to there being five ladies in the employ of the Mountfords living at Philip Street in 1881.
Firstly there is one, who I take to be Annie's younger sister - Eliza Williams aged fifteen years as she was born in Walsall the same as Annie. There are then Elizabeth Allen (52) born Halesowen - Mary Williams (18) - Ann Nock (16) and Phoebe Cope (18) All single women heralding from well outside the Birmingham. Why no local girls - what was the reason to so called 'import' them.
Oh I do love a mystery but could someone solve the enigmas Rod and I have raised?
Will.
 
An old friend of my husbands is a Mountford, he had a stall in the original Bull Ring. He would be in his mid 60's now. Are they related to you?:) Mo
 
Puzzles galore

I wonder if the premises spanned High Street/Phillips Street? I found the reference on a earlier Kelly's ....... Just an idea If 101 High street is on the corner then just a little way along might be 103, which might just span the two streets? Just a theory. But whatever the clipping does reveal that a Mountfords dinning rooms were indeed in Phillips Street. Worcester Street was the other end of Phillips Street linking New Street to Edgbaston Street crossing the top end of Phillips street.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sakura,
There is no ancestry with any of my lines. It was a case of employer and employee between Mountford and my aunt. It was obviously a close friendship when one considers the unpublished photographs I have of a private moment in the garden at the rear of the shop and the holiday snap at the seaside.
No, what little research I have made is down to the appearance of the above photograph and the other two, intriguing me to that point of making the effort.
I have written to others, who have an interest in the Mountford lines, but todate I have been unable to trace any descendants.
Will.
 
Will, intresting photo and posting, the only Mountford I have in my records was a chap who fought in the Boer War and joined the coastguard in the Great War
he lived at 1 back of 55 Prescott St. Brookfields in 1919
 
Rod,
An interesting theory and one can but surmise that Hannah at 103, High Street and 'my' line are connected, for it seems a strange coincidence that they may be living back to back to each other. The one photo(garden photo as I referred to it) taken at the rear of the shop shows, as much as one can see, past the group of people, is an outbuilding and a line of other properties. One odd thing is that an adjoining property has a flag pole in it's rear area. Still if they face onto busy thoroughfares (as your last attachment infers) then the back garden may be the only place to fly the 'Jack' on those special occasions.
Cromwell. My thanks for your interest also, but at this time it is like pinning the tail on the proverbial donkey to identify possible members of this line.
To possibly take it further, if others are interested enough, I wonder if the 1891 census or later may give us more information on this line. It would be nice to put a full stop at the end of this piece of Brum history.
Will.
 
Will ..........I have just found the following about Mrs Mountford
She was the most famous dining house proprietor in the late 1800's and Early 20th century.
Mrs Mountford had premises on the Bell St end of the old market hall in the Bull Ring, Mrs Mountford was a large lady who ran a cooked meat shop in the Bull ring which was formerly a chip shop in Bell St and kept her baby in a wicker basket under the counter........later on when she made enough money she moved to the Bull Ring were Woolworth's stood later ..She lived in Sutton Coldfield
Info Courtesy of our friend Carl Chinn
(I can PM you a bit more)

PS interesting note Bell St came off Worcester st
In 1935 The Fish Store was right next to the Market Hall
and Before Mountford Dining Rooms they were owned by Henry Normansell who ran a poultry business easy to pinpoit as it was opposite Nelsons Statue
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Will I have managed to bring a faded postcard to life of Mountfords Dinning Rooms
Second pic is a bit better and a close up
Mr Mountford the butcher often had to defend himself and his wife from thugs when he sold his meat of cheap to the poor in 1901 with his butchers knife
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cromwell,
You have brought this story to life again. Please my thanks firstly for your enquiry and secondly please extend my thanks to Carl for his important input.
I did not realise, obviously, how large a concern she finally ran although from the Philip Street place it had an affluent look.
Once I have sorted out the size of these old photographs (at this time they are too large for this site and I await instruction on how to reduce them by my learned daughter) I will post the picture of Mrs. Mountford to add more flesh to these 'ample' bones
Please p.m. with anything else you may have. Again thanks.
Will.
 
Will, As Rod said in post 3 it was Mrs Hannah Mountford who had the eating rooms next to the Market (PM'd ya more info)
 
Sorted ya a better postcard out Will
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Makes me wonder whether our friends in England that had stalls in the old indoor market are related to this Mrs Mountford. Strange they should have the same name and all have places in the market.:) Mo
I guess we should contact our friends and ask.
 
Cromwell,
Thanks for the p.m. very interesting but I am left a little baffled by Mrs. Mounford's christian name.
I have no written account of her christian name from my aunt and am taking it to be so from the 1881 census where it shows her as 'Annie' together with her hubby William at 9, Philip Street. The marriage, via Family Search howbeit, also shows her name as Annie.
Now we have three locations for her ownership of premises, with a Hannah at the Market one and also,formerly, of the fish and chippy in Bell Street. and also, a Annie at the Philip Street one
At the Philip Street address the census refers to a child, William, aged five years so this location, if the women are one of the same and not counting for more children, is after the fish and chippy and before the Market one. Or am I now losing the plot somewhere?
Will.
 
Will, from what I can gather the first photo you put on shows the first shop then the one next to the Market in the 1900's then that changed to the fish shop all run by the Mountfords ....I have a photo somewhere showing the fish shop in the same place as Mountfords about 1940's
Easy to confuse Hannah with Annie
 
All the cross postings shows we have a interest here for which I am grateful. Have taken a copy of your latest, Cromwell, simply for my knowledge alone.
Expect at this rate we could cross post again. Do enjoy a mystery but it would be nice to solve this.
 
So I come to the end of my meagre knowledge of the Mountford 's Dining rooms let alone the family. I have no certain knowledge but have been again led to believe that Mrs. Mountford died in the 1930's.
The connection between my aunt and Mrs. Mountford, I am told by my elder and more learned sister progressed from being emplyed in the rooms to that of a travelling companion. The connection was severed in 1923 when my aunt married to cook's son and they set up there own businesses in Hockley.
Herewith is one of the photographs I have of Mrs. Mountford taken on the occasion of a trip to the seaside.
Will.
 
its never too late to join a thread eddie....great photo and as alan has already asked any idea who the two ladies are in the photo?

lyn
 
Notable is the wording on the window "luncheon", abbreviated to day to lunch which does not have the same meaning of a formal mid-day meal, often with guests. It seems that luncheon (lunch) was generally mid-day and dinner an evening event. I suppose the meaning have become blurred over recent years like many other wordings. Teas, rather afternoon teas are mentioned but missing of course is the present day fascination with coffee. Nice to see children were catered for and amidst all the catering advertisements are two others about Gold Flake cigarettes. The days when it was customary for many to smoke after a meal. Presumably there was a separate non-smoking area, if there was not then I expect non-smokers gave the place a wide berth. ;)
TV programmes are often mentioned on BHF - some worth watching, other not so. This reminds me of the old tradition (a là Downton) - still kept by those who are able to, for varying reasons, of dressing for dinner.
 
I'm afraid I don't know.
However, this is written on the reverse of the photograph:

"Dear Jessie,
George took this snap.
I did not know it was being taken.
Not bad is it?
Love to each, Alice"

Jessie is Jessie Bosticco (née Watson), my grandmother.
George is her brother, George Watson, who was a chef. He may well have been chef at Mountfords.
Alice was always Aunty Alice - I never knew her surname. She may be in the photograph.
I hope this is useful. It would be nice to know more.
I've got another couple of photographs.
Kind regards
Eddie
 

Attachments

  • Mrs Mountfords Dining Rooms - 00 - reverse.jpg
    Mrs Mountfords Dining Rooms - 00 - reverse.jpg
    687.1 KB · Views: 7
A nice post Eddie, I have the idea that the two ladies could well be those mentioned on the card. However, you knew them both, so, in your opinion, who is who? Presumably, as you mention belongings when speaking of your grandmother, both ladies are now dead.
 
A nice post Eddie, I have the idea that the two ladies could well be those mentioned on the card. However, you knew them both, so, in your opinion, who is who? Presumably, as you mention belongings when speaking of your grandmother, both ladies are now dead.
I think the younger of the two women is Alice. The other lady I don't know. Jessie is not in the photograph.
 
Back
Top