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Mills at Sutton Park

O

O.C.

Guest
If walking along Mill Street in Sutton Coldfield which is by the railway station and you could see into the past you would see a very different Sutton to what it is now
In Norman times the Lord of the Manor could at his pleasure seize a third of all your goods if you were a serf, as a serf was no more than a slave.
They were forced to grind corn at the Lords water mill which stood at the bottom of Mill Street till 200years ago if not working their at his other mill, a windmill on Maney Hill. Not only did they have to work they were forced among other things to repair the mill-pool with earthworks, when harvest time came they had to help in the lords fields for which they were paid for their service’s one fat sheep, four pennyworth of white bread (which they made) and twelve casks of beer.
On the other hand they had rights so that they could buy and sell freely both in and out of the Lordship of Sutton without challenge they also had a strange custom called  House-Bote or Hay-Bote were they where given the right to have enough wood to repair their houses and hedges from the woods in Sutton Park in the time of Lent also taking any dead wood for the fire which as far as I know that law still exists today.
The Earl of Bracebridge built the dam of Bracebridge Pool in 1419 and like Keepers Pool and most of the older pools were made purely for the purpose of keeping fish which was mainly bream
In later years The Pools in Sutton Park unlike the earlier fishing pools were made for waterpower to drive the mills attached to them.
Holland Pool in later years supplied England’s arm trade with gun barrels which they ground at the mill.
The pond which is in the enclosure now just inside the park gates were the old racecourse was worked an edged tool forge making all kinds of farming and cutting tools.
At Longmoor Pool there was Longmoor Mill which was a Button Mill, button making was a flourishing trade centuries ago in Sutton.
Blackroot Pool was Blackroot Leather Mill making all kinds of leather goods from belts to saddles.
Spade Mill which still existed 100years ago at Powell’s Pool made spades and later on rolled steel for pen nibs.
Other mills in the Park were
Blade Mill, Stonehouse Mill which was used for Steel rolling and evidence that at least another three were known to exist
The photo shown below of Spade Mill in Sutton Park was taken over 100years ago
An interesting letter to the Gentleman’s Magazine of 1762 contained the paragraph
Below: -
Some Rivulets which take their rise in the Park feed several mills built in and near it,
Not only for the grinding of corn but for boring musket barrels, polishing metal buttons, making saws, grinding axes, knifes and bayonets, and performing various other operations for the mechanical traders in Birmingham, who having had a great number of their workmen impressed or voluntarily into his Majesty’s service during this war have set their invention to work to perform by mills many operations which use to employ more hands that can be procured in the later end of the war when so many have been buried in Germany and Canada  (Minden and Quebec)

Another interesting fact that I came across is that the enormous Staple trade of Lancashire was started in Sutton and what is claimed to be the first contraption for spinning cotton by machinery was invented and tried in Sutton long before the time of Richard Arkwright.
1n 1733 John Wyatt spun the first thread of cotton without the aid of human fingers at Sutton by an arrangement of rollers in a small model.he made
The invention was tried on a practical scale at Birmingham near the well in the Upper Priory worked by an engine turned by two asses walking round an axis.
This first cotton mill did not prosper and was discontinued in 1742 but what a honour that Sutton originated one of the greatest of the Worlds industries
All around Sutton along streams and rivers stood Old Mills now long gone but still traceable by old records and maps
 
Map showing a few of the mills in the park 1900 map is small portion of a larger map
 
How interesting Cromwell.

I used to live in Clifton Road between the Fair Entrance and Windley Pool, on the park side. the house was demolished in the late 60's I think.

I also lived in Langley Mill Drive on the Lodge.

I never knew there were so many mills in Sutton. thank you for the imformation.
 
Brilliant Cromwell, can't wait for the next part about Sutton, my grandmother used to work I think for the American Post office, will check on that. ;)
 
Loisland
Posting the history of Sutton Park on the History Page, hope you like it as it is quite a big short story
 
Just keep going if you have a mind to, it's all brilliant stuff. Thanks so much for your hard work
 
Any one seen the SUTTON OBSERVER NEWS PAPER 13 .10 .2006

HEADLINES: Bridge is stolen in bizarre Park theft.
The bridge in side Wyndley Gate was stolen 20 ft of wood, leaving only the metal bolts behind.
Cromwell this is the bridge over the stream on your first photo called school holidays (By WYNDLEY POOL)
What is the world coming to it beggars belief.
A VERY DISCUSTED. ASTON
 
holland house

Could anyone help with the location of Holland House, Sutton Coldfield. I know that there was a water mill and 3 pools with the house. The mill ceased working in 1889, bayonets and gun barrels were found in the location. Holland House was demolished in 1936.....somehow this property is leading me towards Plantsbrook Mill, but cannot be sure, so a location on Holland House would help. Thankyou..... :)
 
Hill Hook Mill

loisand I can't help with this one but I do remember the Water Mill at Hill Hook. My friends granny lived there when she was young. I remember her name was Carter but I'm not sure if that was her married name. The Mill was a house for the gamekeeper for many years when the land was owned by Cincinatti in the 1960's. I remember the mill was lovely a small white house with a big water wheel on the side. There is a picture of the pool in astons post here; https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=8807&d=1187552371
 
Hill Hook

A Mr & Mrs Harrison lived at the mill between 1946-1952...the mill buildings were destroyed by fire in 1950....1960 Cincinatti were the owners and Mr Medlam was the tenant....1970 the mill was demolished due to vandalism and fire...Jan 1983 the mill wheel was removed for safe keeping by "City Engineers Dept" they also put forward £60,000 to repair and desilt the mill pool, the wheel was reinstalled at Forge Mill in Sandwell Valley, by 1984 the dam had been restored and a new bridge installed, the cellars of the mill were filled in :) :)
 
Thanks Loisland what a great piece of info. I remember Mr Medlan well. He used to chase us away, he carried a shot gun over his shoulder. He would row around the lake on his boat. Do you know who lived there before the Harrisons?
 
Hi Wendy, I don't know who lived there beyween 1919 and 1946, I have the names of who lived there from 1671-1919, I will have to go and look in central library for that bit of information :)
 
Thanks for your help Loisand I didn't even know the pool was still there. I will have to go and take a look.
 
Hill Hook Pool

Hi both as I have said in other post my mom & dad & all our family used Hill Hook as a weekend camping ground as well as a way of getting away from the bombing of Birmingham & aston in WWII.
I was born at the our break of the war & just about remember falling in to the pool at Hill Hook & being saved by my aunt Edith ( she pulled me out by my golden locks) just before I went in to the mill race.
The guy who ran the pool camp site in 1933 was a Mr L Turner, as you will see from the posted page taken from the ASTON PARISH CHURCH MAG of 1933 ( bottom left) I also post anothe pic of my dad nan & grandad haveing tea in front of there tent at Hill Hook around the 1930s.
ASTON
 
Aston, thanks for the pictures and the information. It was wonderful as I child I loved the place the countryside on my front door.
 
Great postings, I love the mills, almost as much as Loisand.:)

Loisand I am looking for Holland House. there is a lot to search, so far I've gone through the park, being called Four Oaks Park, and Hill Hook, where a Thomas Marshall is shown as Miller, although the enumerator didn't write Mill in the address column. I'll do more tomorrow.
 
Di you may possibly find any mill connection to "OUGHTON", that was the family name that lived in the premises in 1855, and I looked through Victorian Sutton and there was mention of "Oughtons Mill". I have found out that Plantsbrook school was built on the site in 1986....I know there were sword makers at the mill, (I found that bit yesterday) but whilst having a senior moment I forgot to write those words down, so it looks like the mill was something to do with that line of work...thankyou for trawling the net for me :) :)
 
Found this Oughton family on the 1851 census. theres a retired miller close by.

Head: OUGHTON, Mary Neighbors 290251
Name Relationship Mar Age Sex Occupation Birthplace
Mary OUGHTON Head W 71 F Lady Handsworth-STF
Mary JONES Serv U 25 F House Serv Tenbury-WOR
Hannah BERESFORD Serv U 24 F House Serv Morton-WAR
Geo. JONES Serv U 22 M House Serv Lydd-KEN
Address: The Pools, Aston
Census Place: Sutton Coldfield Aston, Warwickshire
PRO Reference: HO/107/2062 Folio: 477 Page: 12 FHL Film: 0087321


Head: TWAMLEY, Zachraiah Neighbors 290254
Name Relationship Mar Age Sex Occupation Birthplace
Zachraiah TWAMLEY Head U 78 M Retired Miller & Yeoman Sutton Coldfield-WAR
Sarah SATCHWELL Hskp U 25 F Dressmaker Kenilworth-WAR
Address: The Dam, Aston
Census Place: Sutton Coldfield Aston, Warwickshire
PRO Reference: HO/107/2062 Folio: 477 Page: 12 FHL Film: 0087321
 
This may help

Joseph Houghton a Birmingham barrel forger was granted a lease of land at stonebed moors, Sutton Coldfield in 1754 for the purpose of damming the Ebrook creating a pool and building a water mill. He was probably also the occupier of the substantial house that was built there in 1732...............................Cat:)
 
Thankyou both.....Brummie Nick, Zachariah Twamley gets around don't he, he or his family were something to do with Castle Brom Mill, millers, then he moves to the Over Whitacre area and dies around that area, his son or some relative was something to do with Newhall Mill then became some big noise in Sutton Coldfield, its brilliant what these census reports give you, you can track the name all over the country or county. Catkin.... where did you get your info from, was there anymore from your source that you can tell us and thankyou both for what you have supplied so far :) :)
 
Continuum

VERBATIM.

Joseph Houghton was warden of the town in 1767.

A large 12 acre area was covered with pools and ozier beds ( willow reed for weaving baskets) and became known as Holland.

"GENTLEMANS MAGAZINE" of 1762 refers to a mill for boring musket barrels and THE HOLBECHE DIARY referring to Holland in about 1855 recalls three pools and a Mill Dam and a Mill in which bayonets and gun barrels were found.

John Oughton and his wife Mary Vaughton whom he married in 1810 were living in Holland house in 1841 but by 1851 Mary was a widow there.

Oughton Mill had ceased to operate by 1889 and by 1892 the house gardens had extended into what had been the area of pools.

The house was demolished in 1936 and in 1939 Riland Bedford school was built on the site ( in 1986 the name of this changed to Plantsbrook School.
Cat...:)
 
Thankyou catkin.....have written it all up, now just to add more beef to the bone...once again thankyou :) :)
 
Thanks to Cat, I've been able to find Holland House at last, and also Oughton Mill

Here are John and Mary Oughton in 1851

Name:John Oughton
Age:66
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1775
Gender:Male
Where born:Warwickshire,
England Civil Parish:Sutton Coldfield
Hundred:Hemlingford (Birmingham Division) County/Island:Warwickshire
Street Address Holland House
Occupation:Ind
Registration district:Aston Household Members:
NameAgeJohn Oughton 66
Mary Oughton 61

This is Oughton Mill, and the picture is almost complete, Loisand, the guns found were bored at the mill.

Name:Samuel Clive
Age:60 Estimated Birth Year:abt 1781
Gender:Male
Where born:Warwickshire,
EnglandCivil Parish:Sutton Coldfield
Hundred:Hemlingford (Birmingham Division) :Warwickshire Street address: Oughton Mill
Occupation:Gun Barrel Borer
Registration district:Aston
Household Members:
NameAge
Elisabeth Albrighton23
Ann Clive 4
Edmund Clive 6
Lydia Clive 30
N K Clive 6 Mo
Samuel Clive 60
Jane Granton 28
Ellen Norse 31
William Trow 21
Elisabeth Vaughton 87
Elisabeth Weldon 50
John Weldon 5
Samuel Weldon 20

Very close to Oughton Mill, just two pages of census returns is this Mill

Name:John Bridge Age:40
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1801
Gender:Male
Where born:Warwickshire,
EnglandCivil Parish:Sutton Coldfield
Hundred:Hemlingford (Birmingham Division)
Street address:New Hall Mill
Occupation:Miller
Registration district:Aston
Members:Name
Age Elizabeth Bridge 40
John Bridge 40
Harriot Greenway13
John Millward 50

To finiish it off there is a Farm house very close to New Hall Mill and it is called Maney farm.
 
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Thankyou Di.....gosh there was alot in the household of Oughton Mill, and all different names.....the mind boggles sometimes :) :)
 
Re: Hill Hook Mill

loisand I can't help with this one but I do remember the Water Mill at Hill Hook. My friends granny lived there when she was young. I remember her name was Carter but I'm not sure if that was her married name. The Mill was a house for the gamekeeper for many years when the land was owned by Cincinatti in the 1960's. I remember the mill was lovely a small white house with a big water wheel on the side. There is a picture of the pool in astons post here; https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=8807&d=1187552371
I have just spoken to David Weaver and he is related to the Carter family and confirmed they did live at the Hill Hook Mill.
 
I am not 100% sure but maybe 1930's I will ask David if he knows.
 
Wendy, I posted one like this before but the is from the SUTTON OBSERVER the HILL HOOK MILL HOUSE TAKEN IN 1964,
Just in the far left on the dam is were I fell in as a very young child & was pulled out by my hair thanks to my Aunt Edith.
ASTON
 
Thanks Aston, my that has taken me back the mill house and gardens were so lovely.
 
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