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My grandfather Joined the Gloucestershire Regiment, and was wounded by having his thumb shot off. He was sent back to England, where he must have been admitted to hospital, even if only for a short while. I was interested to read about the numbers of wounded men sent to hospitals in Birmingham. I am not sure if my grandfather would have been sent to Birmingham, but as far as I know he had no connection with the city. However, after being invalided out of the army, he settled in Birmingham where he married my grandmother (1920) and lived for the remainder of his life. Unfortunately there are no records of his time as a soldier, other than the medal rolls. The part of his story about being wounded comes from a paper I have found which refers to the pension he received from the government because of his injury. This pension was for the whole of his life. Losing a thumb might not sound serious, but it seems that it prevented him from being able to fire a rifle, so his wounds stopped him from being a fighting soldier and he was discharged
Does anyone know if groups of wounded men were kept together in their regiments when they were returned to England, or were they just bundled into ambulances and trains to be brought back home, no matter which group they had been fighting with?
Does anyone know if groups of wounded men were kept together in their regiments when they were returned to England, or were they just bundled into ambulances and trains to be brought back home, no matter which group they had been fighting with?
Hi NannyPam. I don't think the wounded would have been kept in their regiments. They would have passed through the Front hospitals, dressing stations etc and then onwards depending on need. I expect unless a unit suffered many casualties they'd be unlikely to be moved together. But someone more knowledgeable might be able to advise you.
Viv.
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Viv.
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Hello,..As far as i know,these Soldiers came from N Ireland,in irish Regiments..Was Birmingham the Main,Centre..for the Wounded..
. hi Nannypam,..how can i find info [Pensions] on my Cousin,who was injuried in WW1..my other Cousin has the details Servive Papers..But not pension records,would this info give any details,were about he was given medical treatment in birmingham in 1917..?..Regards..Christy
A smashing photo from BBC World War One At Home of a hospital train at Snow Hill. Spotless uniforms and beds ready made up in the coaches. Viv.
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And here are the Sisters Quarters at B'ham University Military Hospital. I expect these provided a haven for these nurses away from the wards. Viv.
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terry carter
Birmingham Pals
https://www.redcross.org.uk/~/media...tals in the UK during the First World War.pdf
Above is a link to The British Red Cross and it lists all the Auxillary Hospitals in the UK during WW1
Terry
Above is a link to The British Red Cross and it lists all the Auxillary Hospitals in the UK during WW1
Terry
brummie nick
master brummie
Terry. I've searched that list and can't find one for Glen Parva Leicestershire. I have what looks like a travel warrant [Army Form 3016] giving my Father leave for 23rd November 1917.to 3rd December 1917
Nick
Nick
Hi Christy. There's basic info on Ancestry about what's available on pensions records. Viv.
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terry carter
Birmingham Pals
Yes Colin B is correct There was a military depot at Glen Parva in Leicestershire
Steve R
master brummie
Just been looking through my collection and discovered these two pictures. There were taken from a much bigger album that I bid on at auction but lost only to see them on Ebay as separate items a few weeks later. There is a soldier from the Birmingham Pals battalion in each of the picture as they have the distinctive cap badge on their hats. They were titled in the original album 1st Southern Hospital which would have been Birmingham University. They look to be through the worst so hopefully all survived.
Hi Christy
I don't think I can be much help on your specific research quest, I can only tell you what I've got.
After my father died, I went through some papers and found the pension entitlement for his father (my grandfather). It said that he was entitled to receive a full pension because of the wound he had got during WW1. I know for a fact that he did receive such a pension, and it helped to supplement Nan and Grandad's housekeeping money. Grandad had been wounded, and he was invalided out of the Army at that time. He had part of his thumb shot away, and the reason for the dismissal was because he could no longer fire a rifle. It doesn't mention where he was treated, though.
All I can suggest is that you ask who has the service record if there are any other surviving papers. The document I have looks as if it were written on very thin tracing paper! If I hadn't been sorting through the stack of papers one at a time very carefully, I would have just passed over it and not known about it.
If you have the Service Record, then you are one up one me! My Grandad's service record was destroyed, along with many others, and so I have found no trace of his movements or time in the Army. I know that he was in the Gloucestershire Regiment, and I have his service number from the pension paper, but that's about all. I do have his brother's service record, as that was offered for sale on E-Bay, and I put in a successful bid for it.
I hope you manage to find something else about your cousin's time in the services. Good hunting!!
terry carter
Birmingham Pals
Hello Steve R
I see the Birmingham Pals soldiers in the photographs are still wearing their dark blue service hats which means the pictures were taken sometime during the first six months of 1915. Most probably they had injuries sustained whilst in training.
Regards
Terry
I see the Birmingham Pals soldiers in the photographs are still wearing their dark blue service hats which means the pictures were taken sometime during the first six months of 1915. Most probably they had injuries sustained whilst in training.
Regards
Terry
pjmburns
master brummie
Some pension records are on Ancestry and Find my Past, as are any existing service records. The newly released war diaries allow you to follow regiments movements and I have been able to use this to track what my Grandfather was doing and where he was when he was injured (I knew the date as we have the letter telling his next of kin he was injured and in hospital in France).
Janice
Janice
Steve R
master brummie
Hello Terry
Yep I thought that about the blue caps. Unfortunately no dates. These came from an album full of soldiers from all regiments who all worked at the same factory in Birmingham but they are all broke up now. There were a couple of interesting pictures with names on one of which is a named group of four soldiers two of whom died but one of them is Pte 530 Frederick Chare. When I read your first book he you state he was a carpenter and made the cross for an officer who died and was being visited by his brother Lieut Furse
Steve R
Yep I thought that about the blue caps. Unfortunately no dates. These came from an album full of soldiers from all regiments who all worked at the same factory in Birmingham but they are all broke up now. There were a couple of interesting pictures with names on one of which is a named group of four soldiers two of whom died but one of them is Pte 530 Frederick Chare. When I read your first book he you state he was a carpenter and made the cross for an officer who died and was being visited by his brother Lieut Furse
Steve R
Steve R
master brummie
Had a problem uploading this so hopefully it will come out OK. This is a sad reminder of the first War period being a sympathy card to soldiers next of kin. There must have been an anticipation of huge losses as this has been signed by Neville Chamberlain (Mayor) and his wife but never made out to any soldier. I guess many were signed awaiting a casualties name.
A touching postcard showing Birmingham University as the 'Southern Hospital - Bournbrook'. The seated soldier on the left appears to be thinking of his wife and child; his child is dressed in military uniform. Viv.
This looks interesting, lecture on Matron Lloyd, of the hospital based at Birmingham Uni in WW1. Viv.
https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/events/lectures/matron-lloyd.aspx
https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/events/lectures/matron-lloyd.aspx
The 1st Birmingham Military Hospital. Viv.
Di.Poppitt
GONE BUT NOT FORGOTTEN
This from The Long Long Trail
| Eyewitness: Mona Neale |
| "I think it must have been about 1915 when wounded soldiers were first brought to Soho and Winson Green station, just across the gully from the Talbot. The carriages were shunted onto the siding which led to a goods yard, where ambulances were waiting to take the wounded to Dudley Road Hospital via Handsworth New Road and Winson Green Road. I remember seeing the soldiers, many with bandaged heads and arms, and [my brother] Wilf and I would wave to them from the top of our garden wall. Sometimes my father would take me with him to distribute cigarettes, tobacco and chocolate that the customers of the Talbot Inn had donated for the wounded troops. Mother was not too happy about my going with him because I would get so upset at seeing these poor souls, some of them legless, but it taught me the awful reality of war". |
|
| Mona Ball née Neale (1903-2000) began to write down her reminiscences in 1983. I am grateful to her son John Ball for this material |
Last Monday I went to a talk at the Cadbury research library at the University on "Matron Lloyd and the University's war effort". It was quite interesting, and Sue Worrall, who is in charge of the special collections at the university library emphasised at the talk that anyone is very welcome to visit and consult the material in the collections . They need have no connection with the university , but just need identification in order to provide a visitors card (details on the Cadbury Research library website).
Katharine Lloyd (no known relation to the banking family) came from Birmingham and was trained as a nurse at the General hospital. Her fist salary was £53/year. Florence Nightingale had initiated the idea of actually training nurses in how they should do their job, but up till 1919 , when a national registration scheme was initiated, there were two separate schemes of registration with different ideas and aims. By 1907 it was realised that a big war was on the horizon and various preparations were begun. The territorial army was formed, combining what had been a mixed bag of volunteers administered by civilians, though usually ex-military civilians, with often as much a social role as a military one, into a national organization. As part of this in 1908 the 13th Territorial General Hospital was set up with headquarters at Witton, together, in 1909, with the Territorial Force Nursing Society. It was at that time decided that the University would be commandeered as a hospital if war was declared. Preparations were made with regards to ordering of food and equipment, undated orders for them even being printed out and addressed ready for the event.
It is not entirely clear what extra training was given to the doctors and 110 nurses that were to be initially available in Birmingham when WW1 broke out on 4th August, but by 11th August they were ready to go. Katharine was matron under the head matron, Matron Musson, and would have visited and been responsible for nursing at sites other than the university. The initial trainload of 120 wounded arrived at Moor St station on 1st September, but later arrivals were received at Selly Oak, Winson Green and Soho Stations for transport to the University. E.M.Tolby (who I cannot find in the 1913, 1915 or 1921 Kellys or the 1911 census) designed and built a trailer to carry wounded on stretchers behind vehicles driven by volunteers. These volunteers were eventually (1916) given petrol money, but had to bear all other expenses. (He also later built a stage for performances at the hospital) . Within 16 months the hospital had 1040 beds . Later the "workhouse" infirmary at Dudley Road was taken over together with other extra facilities at Stirchley and Kings Heath elementary schools and Monyhull Colony in Kings Norton, together with other smaller houses. Eventually in 1017 even the hospital administrators at the university site had to give up their comfortable offices to make extra wards. Such a shame.
Nursing by the trained nurses was augmented by voluntary nurses (VADs), who had a different uniform to distinguish them. Pictures of the wards , usually rather posed, show men who are being treated well and aided in their recovery. Smoking was allowed at certain times (possibly in specified areas), though a comment made at the time by a patient was that smoking was allowed when matron wasn't looking.
Much reconstructive surgery was done to try and help make the terrible wounds suffered by many soldiers more bearable. In total 121992 patients, including foreign soldiers and some POWs. Work went on at the hospital after the war , and it was not finally released back for full educational use till October 1919. Katharine went on to work as matron at a Leicester hospital and retired and died in 1976, leaving some personal papers, mostly post WW1, which are in the Cadbury archive. A member of the audience at the meeting told how her grandfather had been treated at the hospital and that apparently visitors were not allowed, and he used to nip out of the ward and hold hands with his fiancée through the fence. The site was apparently treated as a military camp, and so this would seem very feasible.
The above is a combination of notes I made (and interpreted from my bad writing) and J.P.Lethbridge's "Birmingham in the First World War"
Katharine Lloyd (no known relation to the banking family) came from Birmingham and was trained as a nurse at the General hospital. Her fist salary was £53/year. Florence Nightingale had initiated the idea of actually training nurses in how they should do their job, but up till 1919 , when a national registration scheme was initiated, there were two separate schemes of registration with different ideas and aims. By 1907 it was realised that a big war was on the horizon and various preparations were begun. The territorial army was formed, combining what had been a mixed bag of volunteers administered by civilians, though usually ex-military civilians, with often as much a social role as a military one, into a national organization. As part of this in 1908 the 13th Territorial General Hospital was set up with headquarters at Witton, together, in 1909, with the Territorial Force Nursing Society. It was at that time decided that the University would be commandeered as a hospital if war was declared. Preparations were made with regards to ordering of food and equipment, undated orders for them even being printed out and addressed ready for the event.
It is not entirely clear what extra training was given to the doctors and 110 nurses that were to be initially available in Birmingham when WW1 broke out on 4th August, but by 11th August they were ready to go. Katharine was matron under the head matron, Matron Musson, and would have visited and been responsible for nursing at sites other than the university. The initial trainload of 120 wounded arrived at Moor St station on 1st September, but later arrivals were received at Selly Oak, Winson Green and Soho Stations for transport to the University. E.M.Tolby (who I cannot find in the 1913, 1915 or 1921 Kellys or the 1911 census) designed and built a trailer to carry wounded on stretchers behind vehicles driven by volunteers. These volunteers were eventually (1916) given petrol money, but had to bear all other expenses. (He also later built a stage for performances at the hospital) . Within 16 months the hospital had 1040 beds . Later the "workhouse" infirmary at Dudley Road was taken over together with other extra facilities at Stirchley and Kings Heath elementary schools and Monyhull Colony in Kings Norton, together with other smaller houses. Eventually in 1017 even the hospital administrators at the university site had to give up their comfortable offices to make extra wards. Such a shame.
Nursing by the trained nurses was augmented by voluntary nurses (VADs), who had a different uniform to distinguish them. Pictures of the wards , usually rather posed, show men who are being treated well and aided in their recovery. Smoking was allowed at certain times (possibly in specified areas), though a comment made at the time by a patient was that smoking was allowed when matron wasn't looking.
Much reconstructive surgery was done to try and help make the terrible wounds suffered by many soldiers more bearable. In total 121992 patients, including foreign soldiers and some POWs. Work went on at the hospital after the war , and it was not finally released back for full educational use till October 1919. Katharine went on to work as matron at a Leicester hospital and retired and died in 1976, leaving some personal papers, mostly post WW1, which are in the Cadbury archive. A member of the audience at the meeting told how her grandfather had been treated at the hospital and that apparently visitors were not allowed, and he used to nip out of the ward and hold hands with his fiancée through the fence. The site was apparently treated as a military camp, and so this would seem very feasible.
The above is a combination of notes I made (and interpreted from my bad writing) and J.P.Lethbridge's "Birmingham in the First World War"
Following my earlier description of the talk on Matron Lloyd, a referred the question of "E.M.Tolby" to Sue Worrall, and I got the name wrong and it was Edward Mantle Tailby, who was County Director for Birmingham of the British Red Cross Society. She also referred me to an article in the British Medical Journal at https://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC2303269&blobtype=pdf. , which I include in case it is of interest (the piece concerning Birmingham begins on the second page)
Thanks Mike. When you consider how many were treated and the horrors they witnessed you have to admire what they achieved. As in both world wars, those directly affected were never given help to deal with what they'd experienced. So sad that they carried it with them for the rest of their lives. And very surprised p it took 2 years of war before volunteers were paid petrol money. Can't imagine how the government justified that. Viv.
