Metropolitan Cammell Archives

[willmott]

Viewed some of the records for above in Birmingham Central Library in 2010. Was very interested to view records from the company founded in South Manchester by John Ashbury 1806-1866 - Ashbury carriage and iron Co. Ltd. Founded 1837., coach/carriage makers, mostly railway rolling stock. In 1902 (to cut a long story short) this company merged with Joseph Wright's company in Saltley. Are there any old photographs anywhere of the company in Saltley?
My great grandfather Thomas Ashbury CE was managing director of the carriage co. in Manchester in the late 1800s, John Ashbury was his uncle. I know there are a good few articles on various websites. If anyone in Birmingham is interested in the history of coach/carriage making for the railways, I would be willing to provide information that I don't think is available in the current public domain.

 

[jennyann]

Hi Willmott, Welcome to the Forum. There are four images on the Revolutionary Players website of the Joseph Wright Company in Saltley. I would say they are engravings.
https://www.search.revolutionarypla...exhibition/standard/default.asp?resource=3054 You may have already seen these. Someone on the forum might have more recent photos. Any information that you have regarding coach/carriage making in Birmingham would be appreciated. There is also a map of the area here: https://www.warwickshirerailways.com/lms/washwoodheath_map.htm

 

[willmott]

Your reference re www.warwickshirerailways.com mention is made of a place called Wolverton. I may be wrong but the article may refer to Old Wolverton Station Parish in
Buckinghamshire (Bucks). This area is now on the outskirts of the City of Milton Keynes (since 1967). Old Wolverton was a large area of housing built entirely for its railway workers, the first in England. Wolverton is almost split in half ie., Old Wolverton and Wolverton, by the Grand Union Canal. In the latish 1800s here, much railway work was taking place to establish/extend the railway to London/elsewhere, hence housing needed for the workers and their families.

 

[willmott]

The following gleaned from website Grace's Guide to Industrial History - images of 2 documents following this message. Copyright 2007 Grace's Guide - Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify the 2 documents as stated.

1837 - Joseph Wright (from London) - built coaches for the London & Southampton Railway.
1838 - Coaches built for the London & Birmingham Railway.
Wright moved the carriage works from London to Birmingham following purchase of 6 acres of meadow land in Saltley, Birmingham, adjacent to the Birmingham & Derby Junction Railway Line.
1863 - the company reformed as the Metropolitan Railway Carriage & Wagon Co - successors to Joseph Wright & Sons of London.
1902 - Amalgamation - Metropolitan Amalgamated Railway Carriage & Wagon Co., of Saltley, Birmingham. 18th April 1902 - the Co. was registered & incorporated to amalgamate. Acquired (transfer of shares, land etc.):-
Ashbury Railway Carriage & Iron Co. Ltd., Brown Marshalls & Co., Lancaster Railway Carriage & Wagon Co., Oldbury Railway Carriage & Wagon Co., Willingsworth Iron Co. Ltd.
Acquired later, Patent Shaft & Axle Iron Co., and from 1907 other companies.

 

[willmott]

 

[jdknole]

Hi Willmott, my great grandfather worked at the Oldbury Carriage Works as a Puddler. I would be interested in any information that you had relating to either to this carriage works in particular or carriage making in general. Do you know if there would be anything in the Metropolitan Cammell Archives that would relate to the Oldbury Carriage Works?

 

[willmott]

Hi folks,

Yes I've had a view of metcam thanks, good image of an old railway passenger carriage on this website.
The Metropolitan Cammell Archives are held at Birmingham Central Library and are available for public viewing.
It's likely that some information about the Oldbury Carriage Works would also be held in the archives as so many of these companies merged & amalgamated with Joseph Wright's Company in 1902 and after.
The people who designed/made the carriages (wheelwrights) would have been skilled workers in both iron and wood.
As far as actual carriage making is concerned I need to do more research on this. I'm not an engineer and would need to have some knowledge of civil and mechanical engineering to be able to understand and write/comment about the making of railway carriages.

 

[Dave89]

[FONT=&quot]Hi jdknole,

I will be interested to know exactly what your Gt Grandfather
did as a Puddler. This term is normally used in the foundry industry
regarding the conversion of pig iron. Alternatively I believe someone
involved in mixing clay for the lining of canals, pools and waterways
was also known by this name. The second one doesn't seem likely!

When I worked at the Met at Washwood Heath in the 1970's wheels
were not manufactured there. Completed bogies were brought into
the works. I would be interested to know if any of the Railway
Carriage and Wagon companies actually cast their own wheels. even
going back to Victorian Days.

Kind regards

Dave[/FONT]

 

[Astoness]

just looked in my dictionary of old trades titles and occupations and a puddler is defined as...miner for precious stones or ores/wrought iron worker...

puddling hand...assistant in a works where wrought iron is produced...

lyn

 

[willmott]

I have been viewing 2 railway history preservation society websites for the Welsh Highland and Festinniog Railways - north Wales and Bluebell - Kent.
Both have been involved in restoring some of the original carriages - please view these sites, especially Bluebell, who have photographs of their carriage reconstructions.

I made mention earlier of Wolverton Station Parish in Buckinghamshire. Isambard Kingdom Brunel (1806-1859) the famous engineer, was involved with the establishment of the railways here and also for the GWR - Great Western Railway. He designed/built Temple Meads Railway Station in Bristol. Bristol had its own carriage/wagon works. Brunel is buried in Kensal Green Cemetery in London, also John Ashbury (1806-1866), founder of the Ashbury carriage works in South Manchester and son James Lloyd Ashbury (1834-1895).
On the Cemetery's website, there is much information on the many famous/notable people buried there including a list of named engineers. The Friends of Kensal Green Cemetery have produced, among a number of booklets: The Railway Pantheon, information on railway engineers etc., buried in the Cemetery, which can be bought by post via the website: www.kensalgreencemetery.com, see website for details.

100 of the houses built for railway workers in Wolverton Station Parish, were built by Messrs. J Parnell & Sons, builders from Rugby, Warwickshire. (see attached, from the family history archives - Rugby Town Library).
John Parnell's sister Elizabeth Parnell married my great grandfather Enoch Underwood, builders journeyman(foreman) in 1849. Enoch Underwood was the grandson of Enoch Underwood (jeweller) born 1743, lived in Hockley, son of Michael and Eliza Underwood of Hockley.

 

[willmott]

:encouragement: Railway puddling - furnace puddling for the manufacture of iron, for production of railway plant/equipment - hence producers called puddlers.
Railway wheelrights - obtained apprenticeships to become skilled in working with wood and iron to produce carriages, goods waggons etc. (mechanical engineering).

 

[willmott]

Last posting on general railway background information - returning to Metropolitan Cammell, Birmingham Railway, Joseph Wright, postings sometime after the Bank Holiday.

Railway Stations - visit to Rugby Library, family history archives, on 27 April 2012:-

Builders, building contractors, Messrs J Parnell & Son, of Rugby, family firm, established by William Parnell 1791-1864. Became a private limited company in 1948. Building works include:-

Railway Stations: Rugby, Stafford, Nuneaton, Market Harborough, Crewe, Holyhead and other smaller stations.

The Ashbury Carriage & Iron Co. built in 1855 - Ashburys Railway Station in Gorton, south Manchester, named after the Company. Became a limited company 1n 1862.
Railway line from Sheffield to Manchester Store. Known at that time: Ashburys for Openshaw, then Ashburys for Belle Vue. (branch line stations). See Wikipedia a free encyclopedia wikipedia.uk

More information to come on railway companies, a court case, railway nationalisation.

 

[Sheila Eastwood]

My father worked at metro. Camel in Washwood Heath, he was a foreman, and is name was Benjamin, (Ben for short). Does anyone remember or know him ?

 

[Dave89]

Hi Sheila,

I wonder when he was there, - I worked in the office block in Leigh Road
from 1973 to 1985, and my job took me all over the works. Did he work for the
bus or train side, and of course was his name also Eastwood, or is this your married name?

Kind regards

Dave

 

[Ray Griffiths]

Is Joseph Wright's any connection with Jonny Wright's Was in Holborn Hill Aston along side Aston Train Sheds, now Flight's Coaches.

I used to know a Managing Director at Metro Cam. was in charge of the contract to build the Blue Train for the South African Railways and the Royal Tour of |King George the sixth.

He told me that the The King visited Metro Cam. with his family to see the Blue Train Carriages, the MD was told by the king to fetch his and stop her talk so much he didn't know what to say.

He also said king noticed that the carraiges had radio receievers in them, the remaked I had the princess aren't going to keep me awake with those radio.

 

[Dave89]

[FONT=&quot]Hi Ray,

Your post just reminded me of a picture I have which
I have always believed to be a sales pic of a sleeping
compartment on the Blue Train.

When I was at the Met at Washwood Heath , I was
tasked in the early 80's with clearing and destroying a
lot of old documentation from a storeroom, and this picture
was among some documents relating to the Blue Train. It may
be of interest to you, and there may be someone out there
who can confirm whether it is of the Blue Train or not.

I just couldn't bring myself to scrap it!!

Kind regards

Dave

 

[Sheila Eastwood]

I cannot remember which he worked on his name was Eastwood he should have been made redundant but he was Ill so he took early retirement because he had ear trouble and hypertension does this help

Hi Sheila,

I wonder when he was there, - I worked in the office block in Leigh Road
from 1973 to 1985, and my job took me all over the works. Did he work for the
bus or train side, and of course was his name also Eastwood, or is this your married name?

Kind regards

Dave

 

[Wendy]

My brother worked there from the early 90's when it became Alstom before it's demise.

Here is a good website which may be of interest https://metcam.co.uk.nstempintl.com/

 

[Dave89]

Hi Sheila,

I can't recall Ben Eastwood, but he may well have not been
there at he same time as me. I too was made redundant in
1984, but was then asked to stay on, and finally left in March
or April 1985.

I think cycles of 'feast and famine' in their orders was quite common,
leading to full employment then redundancy.

Kind regards

Dave

 

[Louise Parkinson]

Hi Willmott,

I'm currently doing research on the Ashbury Carriage and Iron Works Company in Manchester. Do you have any further information about the site, especially any plans of the site? I'd also be interested to find out more about the Ashbury family. Thanks.

Best wishes,
Louise

 

[willmott]

1. Court case

With regard to limited companies and their articles of memorandum etc., and the Companies Act. Defendants - The Ashbury Carriage & Iron Co Ltd . Shareholders. Court case failed by plaintiff regarding building of a railway ABROAD (Belgium). Held on appeal- ultra vires against the limited company - as against the Rulings for the set up of limited companies.

I am trying to explain this in my own words. OR there is such a thing as being plain daft, if you see what I mean? Explanation available on websites using above name company to search if you're interested.

2. British Rail


Railway Nationalisation-Wolverton Works (Newport Pagnall) - established in the 1830s by the London and Birmingham Railway. Bearing in mind the Beeching Axe; the Transport Act of 1968 allowed the railways to seek outside contracts and the workshops division was 'renamed' in 1970.

 

[mikejee]

An article from Backtrack Magazine in March 2006 looks at the Company from the point of view of one of the participants in its formation, Dudley Docker

 

[Printman]

Viewed some of the records for above in Birmingham Central Library in 2010. Was very interested to view records from the company founded in South Manchester by John Ashbury 1806-1866 - Ashbury carriage and iron Co. Ltd. Founded 1837., coach/carriage makers, mostly railway rolling stock. In 1902 (to cut a long story short) this company merged with Joseph Wright's company in Saltley. Are there any old photographs anywhere of the company in Saltley?
My great grandfather Thomas Ashbury CE was managing director of the carriage co. in Manchester in the late 1800s, John Ashbury was his uncle. I know there are a good few articles on various websites. If anyone in Birmingham is interested in the history of coach/carriage making for the railways, I would be willing to provide information that I don't think is available in the current public domain.

I realise this will reach you many years after your original post but I am an industrial historian with a number of articles and two books on railway and industrial history already published . (Chris Sambrook / Lightmoor Press). I am currently writing my fourth book concerning railway wagon builders and engineers and am planning to include a chapter on John Ashbury. Any information you have on the gentleman or his works would be of interest I would be very pleased to hear from you.

Regards,

Chris Sambrook ([email protected])