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Matilda Mayes

Vixen

master brummie
Hi everyone. No sure where to put this.

I'm looking for information on Matilda Mayes who was the mother of May elizabeth Johns born either 1896 or 1898 as the census and birth record don't quite tally. Matilda mayes was born 1868 we think. Matilda would be my great, great grandmother but when she was just 3yrs old, she ended up in gem Street industrial school for unruly children in birmingham. She is on the 1871 census at gem Street age 3 but was also at Walton Rd Major Lesters Girls Home in Lancashire.

Matilda is thought to come from Birmingham and lived with George Johns in Birmingham.

I would like help to access any information of her time there but even better would be to learn if she had siblings or what her parents were called and why she ended up at gem St. Any info or help would be appreciated
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hello vixen...are you saying that you have found matilda on the 71 census living at 2 different places?? ...if so this would be most unusual especially as one address is in birmingham and the other in lancashire

lyn
 

Vixen

master brummie
Matilda is listed on 1871 census aged 3 gem Street Industrial School for unruly children but it would seem on 1881 she moved to Walter major Lesters Girls Home in Lancaster. I only have a copy of the gem Street entry.
 

Vixen

master brummie
hello vixen...are you saying that you have found matilda on the 71 census living at 2 different places?? ...if so this would be most unusual especially as one address is in birmingham and the other in lancashire

lyn
I was wondering how to access her information when she was at gem Street to try and discover why she was there, who her parents were, dob exactly and if she had siblings.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
ok i am with you now...with regards to her records at gem st...if you live in birmingham you could visit the birmingham libary archives city centre to see if the records still exist.. (check their website for opening times)if you live outside of birmingham phone up the archives dept with your enquiry...if they do exist you should be able to view them as the 100 year ruling has well passed now

lyn
 

Vixen

master brummie
ok i am with you now...with regards to her records at gem st...if you live in birmingham you could visit the birmingham libary archives city centre to see if the records still exist.. (check their website for opening times)if you live outside of birmingham phone up the archives dept with your enquiry...if they do exist you should be able to view them as the 100 year ruling has well passed now

lyn
Thank you. I will call them today. I live outside Birmingham. No way I can visit, live to far.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
ok best of luck...this does not really help but i have found matilda on the 1925 electoral rolls living at no 23 wilton st lozells birmingham living with 2 of her children ernest and william...no sign of hubby so he may have died...on the 1901 census she had 5 children

lyn
 

Vixen

master brummie
She did have an Ernest!! She had 13 children but 5 died. I wonder if this may be her
 

Vixen

master brummie
ok best of luck...this does not really help but i have found matilda on the 1925 electoral rolls living at no 23 wilton st lozells birmingham living with 2 of her children ernest and william...no sign of hubby so he may have died...on the 1901 census she had 5 children

lyn
Ernest was 11 on 1911 census, also violet, may eliza/Elizabeth, Fred and albert. Matilda was 42 on 1911 census
 
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Vixen

master brummie
ok best of luck...this does not really help but i have found matilda on the 1925 electoral rolls living at no 23 wilton st lozells birmingham living with 2 of her children ernest and william...no sign of hubby so he may have died...on the 1901 census she had 5 children

lyn
Perhaps lost in the war?
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
yes its looking like her...how sad to lose 5 children but we see it often and thats how things were in those days....just looking at the 1911 census..living in nechells then...i doubt if matildas hubby george died in ww1 as he would have been in his late 40s early 50s then...
 

MWS

master brummie
George Johns appears to die in 1912. He married a Mary Ann Claby (d1887) in 1881 but there doesn't appear to be a marriage registration for George and Matilda.

A possible connection to your Hadley thread is that George and Matilda's eldest daughter Edith Diana married a George Frederick Portlock as her second husband in 1919.
 

MWS

master brummie
If there is no marriage for Matilda and George then it might be tricky to trace her with certainty. There is no registration for Matilda Mayes but there is a registration for a Matilda Masey, Bham Mar qtr 1867.

Mmn is listed as Sneath but there are no other Masey/Sneath children or Mayes.Sneath children. No marriages either.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
hi MWS i cant find a marriage for george and matilda...on the 1911 they are down as being married for 27 years which means they married in 1884 and yet the wife of the george you found didnt die until 1887 so if they are one and the same george it could be they did not marry and just lived together..maybe he left his first wife for matilda ..as we know in those days little white lies were often told to save face..it happened with my gt grandparents who were down on the 1911 as being married for 10 years but in reality they did not marry until 1910 :rolleyes: also cant find a baptism for matilda...she is very elusive

lyn
 
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Vixen

master brummie
George Johns appears to die in 1912. He married a Mary Ann Claby (d1887) in 1881 but there doesn't appear to be a marriage registration for George and Matilda.

A possible connection to your Hadley thread is that George and Matilda's eldest daughter Edith Diana married a George Frederick Portlock as her second husband in 1919.
Thank you for this. We were wondering if John W. Hadleys dad was also John William Hadley and his mother Emily Portlock if this is the case then his birth was registered in Mar Qtr 1894 at Aston so he would have been born on the 06/12/1893rather than 1892. Thanks so much for your help. Really appreciate it
 

Vixen

master brummie
Thank you for this. We were wondering if John W. Hadleys dad was also John William Hadley and his mother Emily Portlock if this is the case then his birth was registered in Mar Qtr 1894 at Aston so he would have been born on the 06/12/1893rather than 1892. Thanks so much for your help. Really appreciate it
Interesting because I couldn't find a marriage cert for George Johns and matilda mayes. I did contact Birmingham archives but they won't help with looking matildas records up. They are saying I either visit which is several hundred miles away or pay a researcher which I can't afford currently. But I will keep trying to see if I can see records etc. Thanks
 

Vixen

master brummie
George Johns appears to die in 1912. He married a Mary Ann Claby (d1887) in 1881 but there doesn't appear to be a marriage registration for George and Matilda.

A possible connection to your Hadley thread is that George and Matilda's eldest daughter Edith Diana married a George Frederick Portlock as her second husband in 1919.
If there is no marriage for Matilda and George then it might be tricky to trace her with certainty. There is no registration for Matilda Mayes but there is a registration for a Matilda Masey, Bham Mar qtr 1867.

Mmn is listed as Sneath but there are no other Masey/Sneath children or Mayes.Sneath children. No marriages either.
George Johns appears to die in 1912. He married a Mary Ann Claby (d1887) in 1881 but there doesn't appear to be a marriage registration for George and Matilda.

A possible connection to your Hadley thread is that George and Matilda's eldest daughter Edith Diana married a George Frederick Portlock as her second husband in 1919.
Does it say what age George was when he died? Trying to find anything on matilda is hard. Just 1871 and the following census for those homes/schools. She was 3 when at gem Street Industrial School. No idea what caused her to be there or any parent info yet.
 

Vixen

master brummie
hi MWS i cant find a marriage for george and matilda...on the 1911 they are down as being married for 27 years which means they married in 1884 and yet the wife of the george you found didnt die until 1887 so if they are one and the same george it could be they did not marry and just lived together..maybe he left his first wife for matilda ..as we know in those days little white lies were often told to save face..it happened with my gt grandparents who were down on the 1911 as being married for 10 years but in reality they did not marry until 1910 :rolleyes: also cant find a baptism for matilda...she is very elusive

lyn
She is elusive for sure lyn. I did find an ada mayes and Edith I think but could be unrelated oh and a Frances mayes who went to India, in the military. I did wonder if Frances could have had matilda but gave her up due to her job taking her overseas
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
anything is possible vixen but without concrete evidence nothing is certain..as a lot of us have found if the evidence is just not there there is no chance of going further back but its too early to say that...something may yet turn up....

lyn
 

MWS

master brummie
George Johns appears to be the son of Thomas and Dinah, born 18 Dec 1861. Father is listed as Thomas on marriage to Mary Ann Claby and their son George Patrick is with George and Matilda in 1891. He, elder George, was 40 when he died.

There are couple of likely reasons she's in a home - she's illegitimate and mother didn't want her or parents died.
 
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