pjmburns
master brummie
It could be either. I just wondered if it was the founding of the mission hence the earlier date.
Whichever 57 is a strange anniversary to celebrate.
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Lozells Street Mission Church
- Thread starter Astoness
- Start date
Whichever 57 is a strange anniversary to celebrate.
Thanks so much Viv for the info. and photos. Memory is such a strange thing isn't it. I can still remember the stone above saying Trafalgar place and often wondered why is was called that. Yet I still cannot remember the Church. Perhaps because we always visited from the Lozells Road end, arriving by tram. The gate on the right hand side of the front door was the entrance to the back of both properties. Always went in that way and in those days everybodies doors were left open.
I would agree with Janice that 57 is a very peculiar year for an anniversary.
Does anyone know if it is still being used as a Methodist Church
I would agree with Janice that 57 is a very peculiar year for an anniversary.
Does anyone know if it is still being used as a Methodist Church
pjmburns
master brummie
I can't find any newspaper references to the annniversary.
thanks jan it does seem an odd anniversary to celebrate
There are two distinct buildings - the late Phil mentioned it in an earlier post. The one directly on the corner of Lozells Street and Gerrard Street opened in 1894. The more chapel-like building further up Lozells Street is, I think, an older one (The style and brick used suggests this too). The Mission was very active in the area pre-1894 and made use of several other buildings during its rapid expansion (including school rooms). This sparked the need for more accommodation, hence the new building.
The report below of one of its members reminiscing on leaving the Mission tells us that he was ordained in the "adjoining Chapel" which by 1894 had become their Lecture Hall. His ordination had been 20 years earlier (ie 1874) so the Chapel must have been there from at least that time.
The Grade 2 listing is for the Arts & Crafts inspired building directly at the corner with Gerrard Street. From the description I don't think it includes both buildings. But could be wrong.
The report below of one of its members reminiscing on leaving the Mission tells us that he was ordained in the "adjoining Chapel" which by 1894 had become their Lecture Hall. His ordination had been 20 years earlier (ie 1874) so the Chapel must have been there from at least that time.
The Grade 2 listing is for the Arts & Crafts inspired building directly at the corner with Gerrard Street. From the description I don't think it includes both buildings. But could be wrong.
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Regarding the "anniversary" poster in photo # , an explanation of 'anniversaries' is as follows
"Methodists have always enjoyed celebrating anniversaries. Whereas Catholic and Anglicans mostly commemorate their saints on the dates of their death - Methodists have tended to celebrate anniversaries in a different way, remembering when a chapel was opened or when the Sunday School started. The Chapel and Sunday School anniversaries were opportunities to dress up, have a special meal together (the legendary chapel teas!) and perhaps special sermons preached at two or three services on the designated Sunday (to boost the chapel funds and keep the Circuit Treasurer happy!)" Source: Primitive Methodists site.
An advert for the 67th anniversary in 1945, ten years after our photo showing the 57th anniversary poster. So this helps confirm the year of the advertising poster as 1935. (As per Janices post #35). So the 57th anniversary was Sunday, 27 October 1935. Viv.
"Methodists have always enjoyed celebrating anniversaries. Whereas Catholic and Anglicans mostly commemorate their saints on the dates of their death - Methodists have tended to celebrate anniversaries in a different way, remembering when a chapel was opened or when the Sunday School started. The Chapel and Sunday School anniversaries were opportunities to dress up, have a special meal together (the legendary chapel teas!) and perhaps special sermons preached at two or three services on the designated Sunday (to boost the chapel funds and keep the Circuit Treasurer happy!)" Source: Primitive Methodists site.
An advert for the 67th anniversary in 1945, ten years after our photo showing the 57th anniversary poster. So this helps confirm the year of the advertising poster as 1935. (As per Janices post #35). So the 57th anniversary was Sunday, 27 October 1935. Viv.
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This takes the 'anniversary' back to 1878 when the George Street Mission, Lozells took charge of a mission in rooms in Porchester Street, Lozells - the Mission carried out I believe in a cottage. This former Porchester Street mission later became the Lozells Street Mission. Viv.
Absolutely Janice ! Thanks, reference to your post #35 is in my post #48. Viv.
This confirms the cottage Mission in Porchester Street. Following this they carried out meetings at the local Board School for a few years.
Im finding the expansion of the Mission and its consequent expansion of buildings quite difficult to unravel. It seems various building additions were made over time and each would have been dependent on raising funds to build the required accommodation. Think I shall build a timeline to make semse of it. Viv.
Im finding the expansion of the Mission and its consequent expansion of buildings quite difficult to unravel. It seems various building additions were made over time and each would have been dependent on raising funds to build the required accommodation. Think I shall build a timeline to make semse of it. Viv.
Think I've finally got the layout a bit clearer in my head. Shall demonstrate in photos rather than try to describe it.
The first photo (B&W) must be pre-1894. The blue dot on the aB&W photo is the fullest extent of the first Mission Hall/Chapel at that time. There is a glimpse of the roof of the earlier building shown in the modern day side view in photo 3 by the blue dot
There is a foundation stone (photo 4) on the original building which is incribed "SJ December 18.." (can't read the full year date but obviously 1800s)
The yellow dot's in the second photo show the 1894 extension built to join those buildings. Quite substantial. This must have been built out onto the road - Nursery Road/Gerrard street - or perhaps it was land owned by the Mission. Do we know if the road was narrowed to accommodate the extension ?
I refer to both Nursery Road and Gerrard Street because old newspaper reports use both of these to refer to the Mission's location.
An aside, the first photo shows cellars on the Gerrard Street/Nursery Road side. These cellars were used as an air raid shelter in WW2.
Viv
The first photo (B&W) must be pre-1894. The blue dot on the aB&W photo is the fullest extent of the first Mission Hall/Chapel at that time. There is a glimpse of the roof of the earlier building shown in the modern day side view in photo 3 by the blue dot
There is a foundation stone (photo 4) on the original building which is incribed "SJ December 18.." (can't read the full year date but obviously 1800s)
The yellow dot's in the second photo show the 1894 extension built to join those buildings. Quite substantial. This must have been built out onto the road - Nursery Road/Gerrard street - or perhaps it was land owned by the Mission. Do we know if the road was narrowed to accommodate the extension ?
I refer to both Nursery Road and Gerrard Street because old newspaper reports use both of these to refer to the Mission's location.
An aside, the first photo shows cellars on the Gerrard Street/Nursery Road side. These cellars were used as an air raid shelter in WW2.
Viv
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A summary timeline of the group of Mission buildings that exist today:
Before 1878 - 'Lozells' Mission was founded in Porchester Street in rooms (a 'cottage')
1874 a memory of a former minister recalls the Lozells Chapel being there in 1874. How did the Chapel come into being ? Was it built by the Mission in the 1870s ? ie the building in the B&W photo post #53. (Edit - this referencw now seems likely to be to the Mission at Villa Cross/George Street and not Lozells Street see later posts)
1878 the Porchester Street Mission was taken over by the George Street Mission
1882(?) the Mission was transferred to rooms at Lozells Street Board School
1893 due to increasing numbers and pressure on existing accommodation plans were underway to build the Mission on Lozells Street
1893 Porchester Street premises still in use by the Mission as a school for young children
1894 the Mission on Lozells Street opened. It had a central hall and 2 gymnasiums
1909 further accommodation (womens new hall and classrooms) was needed and another structure was built. Which part of today's site is this 1909 building ? (Edit. Now shown on a later image)
Before 1878 - 'Lozells' Mission was founded in Porchester Street in rooms (a 'cottage')
1874 a memory of a former minister recalls the Lozells Chapel being there in 1874. How did the Chapel come into being ? Was it built by the Mission in the 1870s ? ie the building in the B&W photo post #53. (Edit - this referencw now seems likely to be to the Mission at Villa Cross/George Street and not Lozells Street see later posts)
1878 the Porchester Street Mission was taken over by the George Street Mission
1882(?) the Mission was transferred to rooms at Lozells Street Board School
1893 due to increasing numbers and pressure on existing accommodation plans were underway to build the Mission on Lozells Street
1893 Porchester Street premises still in use by the Mission as a school for young children
1894 the Mission on Lozells Street opened. It had a central hall and 2 gymnasiums
1909 further accommodation (womens new hall and classrooms) was needed and another structure was built. Which part of today's site is this 1909 building ? (Edit. Now shown on a later image)
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Here is a map c 1902, before the extension, showing the hall and after in c 1913. The mid 1880s large scale map shows no buildings on the side of the street up to Wills St, it being an old clay pit.
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Very helpful Mike. Nice to see they managed to leave the large windows of the earlier building intact. It seems to still have a small courtyard behind the 1909 extension. Viv,
Now trying to pinpoint precisely the 1894 extension amongst the buildings.
There's another plaque on the Chapel-like building. This one has "E.P 1893" inscribed. And two archway pillars have initials inscribed. Former ministers perhaps ?Viv.
There's another plaque on the Chapel-like building. This one has "E.P 1893" inscribed. And two archway pillars have initials inscribed. Former ministers perhaps ?Viv.
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There's no doubt in my mind that the Mission Hall in Mike's map of 1902 had already been considerably extended prior to the date of the map. The shape is very irregular and suggests to me adaptations to an original building. Therefore I'm starting to think this must be where all the 1894 extensions to the site took place.
I'm just putting this out there ... I think the series of adaptations night have been something along these lines:
Aqua dot's = modern adaptations eg one of the arched pillars is a more modern construction
Blue dot = 1909 extension
Yellow dot's = 1894 extensions
Red dot = original mission/chapel of 1870s ? See post #44
Just my suggestions - trying to piece together the differrnt stages of expansion so a bit rough and ready. And prepared to accept I could be completely wrong !
Viv
I'm just putting this out there ... I think the series of adaptations night have been something along these lines:
Aqua dot's = modern adaptations eg one of the arched pillars is a more modern construction
Blue dot = 1909 extension
Yellow dot's = 1894 extensions
Red dot = original mission/chapel of 1870s ? See post #44
Just my suggestions - trying to piece together the differrnt stages of expansion so a bit rough and ready. And prepared to accept I could be completely wrong !
Viv
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Mike when you say no buildings up to Wills Street do you mean none including the site of the Mission? If so that means the minister referred to in post #44 was mistaken (unlikely) or he was referring to somewhere else. If he was referring to somewhere else, perhaps it was the Aston Villa Chapel in Lozells. Viv.
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Viv
Surely the two cuttings in post 44 are dated 1893 and 1894, and the first refers to the hall that is going to be built, stating that at that time the mission is held in the school opposite. the second refers to the hall being constructed at that time. The map I mentioned is below and is apparently 1885-1887
Surely the two cuttings in post 44 are dated 1893 and 1894, and the first refers to the hall that is going to be built, stating that at that time the mission is held in the school opposite. the second refers to the hall being constructed at that time. The map I mentioned is below and is apparently 1885-1887
Just thought of an explanation Mike and added it to my earlier post. The Lozells Chapel the retiring reverend referred to could be the Aston Villa (George Street) Chapel, Lozells. The map you've just posted makes it clear there was no early mission chapel on the Lozells Street site, thanks. It dispels my 'wonderings' about whether there was an early chapel. I thought it might have been a chapel that had outgrown itself (hence the use of the school across the road). This was all sparked by the reverand's comment which made me question the early history of the site !
So that would seem to confirm the first dedicated Mission building in Lozells Street would be that of 1894. It also helps to confirm that the listed building details must refer to the 1894 part of the site, not the later 1909 extension. The date of the extension to the west of the 1894 building is unknown - although seems be shown on the 1902 map. It has the appearance of an extension as its a peculiar shape to have been included in the original 1894 design.
Another point going back to the earlier Porchester Street 'cottage'. A cottage seemed to be a feature of the earlier organisation of services and preaching. The meeting room(s) at the Porchester Street house would have been in the group of meetings known as cottage services, other forms were meetings in the open air while others were visits to people in their homes. This sort of organisation would make sense if there was no dedicated Chapel nearby for members to congregate until the Mission started to make use of the Lozells Street Board School (built in 1882). Viv
So that would seem to confirm the first dedicated Mission building in Lozells Street would be that of 1894. It also helps to confirm that the listed building details must refer to the 1894 part of the site, not the later 1909 extension. The date of the extension to the west of the 1894 building is unknown - although seems be shown on the 1902 map. It has the appearance of an extension as its a peculiar shape to have been included in the original 1894 design.
Another point going back to the earlier Porchester Street 'cottage'. A cottage seemed to be a feature of the earlier organisation of services and preaching. The meeting room(s) at the Porchester Street house would have been in the group of meetings known as cottage services, other forms were meetings in the open air while others were visits to people in their homes. This sort of organisation would make sense if there was no dedicated Chapel nearby for members to congregate until the Mission started to make use of the Lozells Street Board School (built in 1882). Viv
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Tinpot, I think the reference to the Reading Room would be the Mission's reading room rather than a public library. A reading room would have been important in the Mission's role of supporting the education of those who attended the Mission. Viv.
That's helpful Tinpot. It gives the dimensions 85ft x 76ft - a substantial building. Viv.
Thank you Viv for all the work you have put into this subject, I find it so interesting. What I do find confusing is looking at your latest map and the numbers of the houses right opposite the Church, 114 onwards, and my Auntie living at No. 92, yet I still cannot remember the Church.
Maybe you don't remember it because it isn't a typical church. And it's a mix of various parts. Also Birmingham buildings of the last century were covered in factory pollution, making them appear very dark. Its only in relatively recent years that the true colours of many buildings have been revealed making them more noticeable.
Viv.
Viv.
