Irish birth

[Ann Steiner]

Not sure if this is the proper spot to post this, but here goes:

According to the 1861 Birmingham area census, one of my 2x great-grandfather's children, the youngest, was born in Wexford County, Ireland (about 1859). Prior to that year (census-wise) and following, they lived in Birmingham. No idea what they were doing in Ireland (or maybe just the mother was?), but what I would like to know is where would the child's birth have been registered -- in Ireland or England?

She was two years old in the 1861 census roll. I don't imagine they would have waited that long to do so -- but yet I've not been able to find anything in Ireland yet.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Ann

 

[expatriate]

Hi Ann, I have tried to trace my ancestry in Ireland but it is very difficult because they burnt down the records building in Dublin durring the 1920's. There are some business' that will help you at a price, but they may not get too far back.

 

[Macca]

Hi Ann,

Have you considered the possibility that the child may have been adopted by the family? It was common for extended family members or friends to take in children orphaned or whose parents simply weren't able to look after them any longer. The child could have taken their surname but as adoptions weren't formalised until the 1920's there won't be any records available, also if this is the case the childs birth would be registered under its birth name making the birth record very difficult to find. The was a large army garrison based in Wexford, so it could be worth looking at armed forces births for that time.

Best of luck in your search,

Macca

 

[Louisa]

Hi Ann
Civil registration of births in Ireland began in 1864 so you would need to look in the Irish Parish Registers for the 1859 baptism record.

Finding a parish through the parents marriage may be one way to locate the childs baptism record. If the family were protestant the civil registration of marriages would have been recorded from 1845 and so it would be possible to obtain the marriage certificate detailing the place of marriage or address and from that record you could locate a parish name and then search the parish registers for the baptism of the child around 1 or 2 years after the marriage date.

If the parents were Catholic then civil registration of these marriages did not begin until 1864 so finding a civil record of the marriage is not possible and you would then need to find the Wexford parish the family lived in and then search the marriage or baptims registers c 1859. As you can see from this link there are quite a few Parishes in Wexford but Wexford may mean the town so I would start there first.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ancestor/browse/counties/rcmaps/wexfordrc.htm

If you look on later English census especially the later 1901 / 1911 the family may sometimes record a parish name or on a burial / headstone/ obituary the actual parish or townland is sometimes also recorded.

Also some Irish families emigrating to a new place would have had the first child baptised again with other siblings maybe to include them for poor law on just in case senario for hard times or a note could have been put in the Birmingham parish register where the family originated from. The Birmingham Catholic archives link is :

https://www.birminghamdiocese.org.uk/curial_archives.asp

If there is any army connection then the civil index records in England may hold the birth info you require. Passenger lists may also list a place of origin if you are lucky.

Hope this is of help
Louisa

 

[Ann Steiner]

Thank you all for your responses, ideas and suggestions.

The father was born in Gloucestershire, and all of the other family members, with the exception of the one daughter, were born in Birmingham. The parents were married in Birmingham. The father was employed there, and although I've not been able to locate them in the 1851 census returns, the two older sons were both born in Birmingham, in 1852 and 1855 respectively. The family is in Birmingham in the 1861 census. For some odd reason either the entire family, or the mother, was in Wexford when the daughter was born in 1859. Mystery as to why.

The family was Protestant -- Lousia, your suggestion of looking in Irish parish registers seems like the best bet. And also perhaps that they actually lived in, or were just IN the town of Wexford at the time of her birth, rather than assuming the census was referring to the county itself is helpful. Perhaps she may have been baptised in Birmingham when the family returned, too, so maybe I can look for a baptism somewhere there.

I was hoping that by learning where she was actually born in Ireland might shed some light on what the family, or mother, was doing there at the time, but I have a feeling this is going to wind up as one of those permanent "unknowns", as I've heard before that Irish research is difficult.

I'll keep looking though, and thank you all again.

Ann

 

[Louisa]

Hi Ann
I think Macca may be right and maybe this child b1859 maybe one they "adopted" because a family relation such as a sister died in Birmingham rather than it being a child of the family who was born in Wexford. Have you tried looking for any other relatives around Birmingham and a possible death.

If you have the wifes maiden name the Griffith Valuation for Wexford may give some indication to a place name or parish if you can locate her family name in the indexes.
https://www.failteromhat.com/wexford.htm

Parishes in Wexford Town are, St Bridgets, St Doogloge, St Iberius, St Mary, St Michael of Feagh, St Patrick, St Peter, St Selskar. They are in the Diocese of Ferns which will help with Griffith valuation searches.

You could also consider joining the forum for Wexford https://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/index/intl/IRL/WEXFORD.html
someone there may have further info or be willing to look something up for you.

Good Luck
Louisa

 

[paul stacey]

My mom was born in Kildare, Eire, in 1919 and we had a devil of a job getting her birth details for her first passport, in the end we had to find out where she was baptised and then the infomation was collected from the local church records,

 

[Ann Steiner]

Louisa,

The wife's maiden name was Craddock -- she and both of her parents were born in Birmingham.

I hadn't thought of the family possibly adopting a relative's child -- all of their family members were born either in Birmingham, or Gloucestershire. Maybe one of the wife's siblings moved to Ireland and died there, leaving a child? I always assumed Celia was one of their own though, the way the births of her and the two boys were spaced apart, and the fact that all three of them were given the middle name of Thealric. But I suppose in family history, anything is possible.

I was looking more along the lines that the family or wife for some reason was in Ireland for a short period, and Celia was born while they were there. Finding records from Ireland is a devil of a challenge, as Paul stated.

Good idea about the Wexford forum though, Louisa. Thank you for the suggestion -- I'll try that angle too. Thank you also Paul.

Ann

 

[Alberta]

Worth chasing up.

A death in Sutton Coldfield 1946 of Cecilia T Walker age 87 (1859)

Marriage 1893 Cecilia Theabric Harman , on the same page Alan Rose Walker.ref Aston 6d 385.
Certificate will have fathers name but there again if adopted may just have Thomas Harman?

They are also on the 1911 the index says Cecilia Walker b. 1864(obviously incorrect) Ireland living Solihull.
Sorry do not subscribe but sks on here will oblige I am sure.

 

[Ann Steiner]

Alberta,

That's her. In the 1891 census returns, Celia is still at home with her parents, and Alan Rose Walker is a boarder. They subsequently married and had a couple children (if my memory serves me, without looking in my paperwork). And I suspect you're correct, in that the father named on her marriage certificate will be Thomas.

I don't think I'm going to be able to go anywhere with this one -- it's one of several puzzles in the family that may never be answered. Thank you very much for looking that up for me though.

Ann