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Information on Passengers

E

Ewan

master brummie
Hope someone can help with this question.:)

Is there any where I can find out more information regarding passengers that were on a passenger list in 1915. On ancestry it gives the name, the age, where sailing from, where sailed to, the name of the ship and their occupation. I am hoping to find perhaps a birthplace, parents names and any other information that would be available.


Many thanks
Ewan
 
Ewan if you would like to give the info. that you got from Ancestry regarding mames ages etc,we will give it a go.

Please don't let their name be Smith,LOL.
 
Thank you Alberta for your reply.


Walter John Williams on board the 'Orita' that arrived at Liverpool 31 May 1915, the ship departed Port Stanley.

He was stated as being aged 31 and his occupation a scaffolder, there is also a Joseph William Williams aged 40 also a scaffolder.

Ewan
 
Just to say I have had numerous people helping to look for Walter John Williams and his family, and I feel I have come to a dead end there. I need advice really on where I can find out anymore about the passenger list if possible, or perhaps there is no where I can find out more information. I don't know.


Ewan
 
Maurice

Thank you for your interest in my dilemma regarding passenger lists and for posting the link.

After asking various people I have come to the conclusion that there is no where to find out more than what is in the ancestry record.

Another dead end.

Thanks again
Ewan
 
Hi Ewan,

Probably not, though I know of one exception which I encountered last year. I had a LONGMORE (not related) who moved to the USA, applied for & obtained his US citizenship & relinquished his British citizenship, then decided to move back to the UK and wanted to work as a teacher. Accordingly he had to re-apply for British citizenship about 1935 and for some reason this managed to find its way into Google. I had to use the Freedom of Information Act to get hold of copies of the relevant papers, which I to pay for. But this is very much a one-off situation! :)

The big questions are "what was he doing in the Falklands?" and "how long had he been out there?". Maybe someone here can help you:- https://falklandislands.tripod.com/Genealogy.html

EDIT: Another thing that has just struck me - was Port Stanley his southern hemisphere point of origin? Or could it have been Chile or Argentina, both of which had substantial numbers of British (and particularly Welsh) ex-pat workers? Amongst the many nondescript bits of information stuck in my head was that WILLIAMS was the commonest foreign non-Spanish surname in one of these countries. I do know that large numbers of Welsh miners went to work in southern South America.

Maurice :cool:
 
Hello Maurice

I really think I have come to a dead end with this chap, primarily I wondered if he was the son of a couple I can not find on the 1891 and 1901 censuses. The name of Walter John Williams cropped up on the passenger list, with the age being a good match and I was hoping to find out any parentage or birthplace from records to confirm whether it was he, and then go on to see if his parents may have been in the same area, as they cannot be found.

Thank you so much for your interest in my search and for your comments, it is much appreciated, I will have a look at the link you gave regarding the Falklands.:)

Ewan
 
Hi Ewan,

I've just tried looking at it from another angle, i.e. if he was born in the UK circa 1883/4, then he must be on the outward sailings at some point before 1915. There were 7 Walter John WILLIAMS born in England & Wales about that time (and that does not include Scotland or Ireland. However there seem to be no direct sailings (they needed to change in Valparaiso, Chile or Lima Peru or possibly other ports) and of the WILLIAMS passengers who have declared that their final destination was Port Stanley, none match your profile. (One was a doctor and his family and another was travelling 2nd Class, hardly liikely for a scaffolder when 3rd Class was available)

One possibility is that he went out to mine in Chile and moved on from there, but the possibilities and permutations are endless.

Maurice :cool:
 
Hello Maurice

Walter John Williams was born in 1885 in England, he and his parents are not showing on the 1891 census, so I presume if they went abroad it was after 1885 sometime. I don't know the occupation of his dad, only that his name was John James Williams and his mum Alice Emily Williams.

As mentioned I was hoping to trace his parents if I could confirm that this was the same Walter John Williams born 1885, but it looks like I may not be able to do that.

As you say there are endless possibilities and permutations ..................

Ewan
 
Hello Ewan,
When at Kew a few years back a wall poster stated that there was a ship's manifest for every ship entering England. I checked it out and verified a disputed date. Since then such information has been put on the internet courtesy of Ancestry.co.uk. Hope this is of some use.
batmadviv
 
Batmadviv:

That's where the information came from - see post # 3 :)

Ewan:

I assume that the relevant marriage then is 3rd Qtr 1884 to Alice Emily CHEVESTON, Isle of Wight, Vol 2b Page 1002 ?

I agree that they certainly don't appear on the 1891 Census.

EDIT: I should have said POSSIBLE marriage for a John James WILLIAMS marrying an Alice Emily between 1860 and 1885. Having said that, there is no Alice CHEVERTON of suitable age on the 1881 Census - they're all too young! The mystery deepens!

Maurice :cool:
 
Thank you batmadviv, and Maurice for your help again.

Yes, that is the couple's marriage in 1884 Isle of Wight.

I also have looked on the 1881 census looking for Alice Emily Cheverton, entering Alice Cheverton birthplace England 'all' and a birth year of 1855 + or - 10 years, census county 'all' and it gave me 7 records, anyone could of been Alice but not having anymore information to go on it was pointless saying that one of them could be her.

Seeing as this family cannot be traced on a passenger list or on the 1891 or 1901 census, I feel this is another non starter for me.


Ewan
 
Ewan:

Well, depending on how important this particular line is to you, the marriage certificate should give you her father's name, but it sounds as though Walter's side is the one that you are after. However WILLIAMS is not much easier to track than SMITH, so I wish you good hunting!

Maurice :cool:
 
Hello Maurice

Alice's dad was a William Cheverton, it is the Alice Emily Cheverton that I am trying to find after 1881 and it was only when a Walter Williams turned up on a passenger list from Port Stanley to Liverpool I wondered if this could of been her son, therefore hopefully tracing the whereabouts of Alice.

I am scaling down family history at the moment and Alice Emily Cheverton was one that I wanted to find, but unfortunately she doesn't want to be found.

Ewan
 
Ewan:

I've just checked the 1891 Census again and drawn a blank. It's looking very much as if Alice & her husband & young child went to the Falklands before the start of the passenger lists in 1890. Why not drop an email to the Falkland Islands Government to see if they keep any records of incoming passengers between 1884 & 1889, or if there was a census there between 1890 and 1915. You can do that here: https://www.falklands.gov.fk/Contact_Us.php

You never know your luck!

Maurice :cool:
 
Hi Ewan

I wonder if the following 1881 census details are one of the 7 records that you found? As you know Alice Emily's father was William, do you also know his occuption?

Living at Durton Farm, Arreton, Hampshire (all have been transcribed as CHIVESTON)
William Chiveston B1821 Newport, Isle of Wight, Hampshire - Head - farmer of 125 acres employing 2 men
Hannah Chiveston B1826 Arreton, Isle of Wight - wife
Alice Chiveston B1856 Arreton, Isle of Wight - farmer's daughter
Austin Chiveston B1856 Arreton - farmer's son
Gertrude Chiveston B1861 Arreton - farmer's daughter
Ada Chiveston B1863 Arreton - farmer's daughter
Lilian Chiveston B1868 Arreton - farmer's daughter
Alfred Chiveston B1837 Newport (Ventnor) Isle of Wight - son - Gentleman (age seems a bit out to be son of Hannah?)
Ethel Chiveston B1877 Ventnor, Isle of Wight - grand daughter

Also Alice, Austin and Gertrude are listed as married, but then Gertrude's entry is crossed through and Unm put against it, perhaps the other two are incorrect also?
EDIT: In the Latest census available Austin is listed as SINGLE so it could be that the the marriage status of him and Alice were incorrect:)
Have a look at see what you think.

regards
Suzanne
 
Hello Maurice and Suzanne

Not forgetting the fact that I am not sure whether the Walter Williams on the passenger list from Port Stanley is the son of Alice and James Williams, it is just that his name came up on the lists, with his age being a good match. However, I will contact the people from the link you gave as they may just have some records of passengers etc. Thank you for that suggestion.

What a find Suzanne, no that is not one of the records I found, all those Alices were living away from their families or the names of the parents were not William and Hannah.

So well done and thank you for finding the family on the 1881 that is them, and possibly as you say the marriage status was wrong for Alice and also Austin.

The search goes on ........ possibly.

Many thanks to you both.
Ewan
 
Hi Ewan

Glad it is of some help. Alice's father's will is on Ancestry. Also, I thought I had come across an Alice Emily William's will for 1928, Isle of Wight, but the death entry states she was 82 which gives a birth year of 1846 - 10 years too soon:(

Suzanne
 
I haven't seen the will of William Cheverton as yet Suzanne, but you mentioning about a will of an Alice Emily Williams for 1928 on the Isle of Wight looks of interest even though the birth year is 1846. I may try and follow her through on censuses to see about her past.

Thanks for the interest and help.


Ewan
 
smtr said:
Hi Ewan

Glad it is of some help. Alice's father's will is on Ancestry. Also, I thought I had come across an Alice Emily William's will for 1928, Isle of Wight, but the death entry states she was 82 which gives a birth year of 1846 - 10 years too soon:(

Suzanne
Click to expand...

Hello Suzanne, I am in the library at the moment looking at wills, I have found the one of an Alice Emily Williams but I can't find the one that you think is the dad of Alice. There is one who died in 1881 looking at death registrations that could be that one but he was aged 79 in 1881 so he would of been born about 1802 (on the 1881 census you posted William Cheverton was born 1821). There is a William Cheverton dying in 1887 aged 67 that could be Alice's dad but I could not find a will.

Ewan
 
Hi Ewan
William Cheverton died 1916 aged 95 Isle of Wight ref 2b 840
Probate London 8 Dec Died 23 Jan 1916, Durton Farm, Arreton, Isle of Wight.
Left £4850 16s 7d to Austen Prior Cheverton, Farmer and Gertrude Ellen Cheverton, (his son & daughter from info from previous census) spinster & Frederick Henry Sheppard, retired china dealer.

regards
Suzanne
 
I am interested in my Grandfather. William J Crump 8/5 OR 5/8 1884 and his brothers Herbert Crump 2/6 or 6/2 1886 Charles G Crump 9/10 or 10/9 1885(Born in the USA) who left for the USA in the late 1800s. My Grandfather William, didnt like it over there and returned to England lived in Smethwick and worked at the Carriage Works? they also had several other brothers and sisters who stayed in England, I would be interested in the ship that they went to the USA on and the one my Grandfather camwe back to England on. Any suggestions how I can get this info. Thanks John Crump OldBrit NOW in Parker. Co USA
 
Hi John,

There are two problems. a) The outgoing passenger lists don't start until 1890 and b) they don't give much detail until after 1920 - frequently no forenames/initials, occupation or place of origin.

I started looking for a family group, but there really aren't any in those early years. I also drew a blank with William. There's a Herbert A. CRUMP travelling alone - a printer aged 27 - on the ss ADRIATIC from Liverpool to New York departing on 31st July 1913, which would make his birth circa 1886.

So they may have left the UK before 1890 or else gone via Canada - I haven't checked that out yet, but I'll have another look later.

I believe the incoming passenger lists are on Ancestry, to which I don't subscribe, but others do on here.

Maurice :cool:
 
smtr said:
Hi Ewan
William Cheverton died 1916 aged 95 Isle of Wight ref 2b 840
Probate London 8 Dec Died 23 Jan 1916, Durton Farm, Arreton, Isle of Wight.
Left £4850 16s 7d to Austen Prior Cheverton, Farmer and Gertrude Ellen Cheverton, (his son & daughter from info from previous census) spinster & Frederick Henry Sheppard, retired china dealer.

regards
Suzanne
Click to expand...


Hello Suzanne
Thank you for finding the will details and for posting them for me, William certainly lived to a ripe old age. I don't know how I missed it :rolleyes:.

I wished I knew though if Alice Emily Williams who died in 1928 was his daughter or not.

Many thanks for your help.
Ewan
 
John:

ss BALTIC sailed 14 August 1925 from Liverpool to New York and included amongst the passengers:-

Herbert CRUMP, age 39, Printer, 107 Cheshire Road, Smethwick
Charlotte CRUMP, age 29, Housewife, 107 Cheshire Road, Smethwick
Charles CRUMP, age 8, Scholar, 107 Cheshire Road, Smethwick
Charlotte CRUMP, age 6, Child, 107 Cheshire Road, Smethwick.

All four are stated to be US Citizens. So presumably Herbert went out in 1927 (see my previous message), probably married Charlotte in the USA and possibly she was a US citizen and the children were born in the USA. They were presumably on this trip returning from a visit to the UK.

EDIT: On the 1911 Census 107 is either an empty house or else has not yet been built.

 No news yet on William or Charles G.

Maurice :cool:
 
John,

This may be Charles going out:-

ss CARMANIA sailed 17 July 1914 from Liverpool to New York

Charles CRUMP. Freelance
Mrs CRUMP, Housewife
Master CRUMP, Child
Baby CRUMP, Infant.

No other information was given except that they were all British citizens.

There is no entry that I can conclusively say is William. There are several adult CRUMPS with no forenames or initials on various vessels. As I have already stated, entries before 1921 tend to be rather sketchy.

Maurice :cool:
 
sospiri said:
John:

ss BALTIC sailed 14 August 1925 from Liverpool to New York and included amongst the passengers:-

Herbert CRUMP, age 39, Printer, 107 Cheshire Road, Smethwick
Charlotte CRUMP, age 29, Housewife, 107 Cheshire Road, Smethwick
Charles CRUMP, age 8, Scholar, 107 Cheshire Road, Smethwick
Charlotte CRUMP, age 6, Child, 107 Cheshire Road, Smethwick.

All four are stated to be US Citizens. So presumably Herbert went out in 1927 (see my previous message), probably married Charlotte in the USA and possibly she was a US citizen and the children were born in the USA. They were presumably on this trip returning from a visit to the UK.

EDIT: On the 1911 Census 107 is either an empty house or else has not yet been built.

 No news yet on William or Charles G.

Maurice, Would you please Email all the results to me at [email protected]. Then I can forward them to my cousin Charles NOW 94yrs old a retired stockbroker and still in good health! the son of Herbert Crump. Charlotte lived to be 105yrs! They had the Crump printing works in Wallingford, Connecticut for years, I even worked there in 1957. Many Many thanks John Crump
Click to expand...
 
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