Geroge & Dragon Great Barr Street

[Snowball]

Does anybody have any information on a public house(?) called the George and Dragon at 96 & 97 Great Barr Street. This was where my grandmother and all of her siblings were born. Two generations of our family owned or managed this pub during the 1881 and 1891 census, possibly for even longer than that. Does the pub still stand ? All information will be acknowledged and will be much appreciated.

 

[mikejee]

Snowball

Remembering that not all pubs were named in the earlier directories, some were listed only as “beer retailer” and it was not made clear whether it was a pub or an off-licence
Looking at the directories for Great Barr St I see the following:

1876
96 Henry White Beer retailer
97 William Smith greengrocer
1878
96 .Harry Bradnock, beer retailer
97 Alfred Edwards, greengrocer
1880
96 .Harry Bradnock, beer retailer
97 John Ogden, greengrocer
1883
96 .Harry Bradnock, beer retailer
97 George Ashton, fried fish dealer
1884 96
96 .Harry Bradnock, beer retailer
97 not listed
1888-96
96 .Harry Bradnock, beer retailer
97 William Barrs ,hairdresser
1899
96 Mrs Ann Blick beer retailer
97 not listed
1900
96 William Whittaker, lamp & oil dealer
97 John Blake Lloyd, grocer

There is a George & Dragon listed at 51 Barr St (in 1890, didn’t check other years) and several others also

mike

 

[Snowball]

Thanks for the information Mike. My Mother is still a lively 90 years of age and her memory of the past is really remarkable. She can remember the George and Dragon very well since the place had featured in our family and her own Mother, Julia Bradnock was born there. She said that it was an "off licence" whatever that means, can you explain the difference between an "off license" and a public house.

According to my records based on sites like findmypast and Ancestry etc. the George and Dragon had the address of 96 & 97 Great Barr Street. Your post suggests that it was only 96, can you elaborate on this ?

I had thought that the original Bradnocks that managed/owned the George and Dragon were George and Charlotte Bradnock. If my information is correct then they passed the place on to their eldest son Joseph who was married to Sarah (nee Venables). In the 1871 Census the first Bradnocks were listed as Henry and Charlotte not George and Charlotte. This makes it a bit confusing so I'm not too thrilled at finding that your records of 97 Great Barr Street introduce yet another Bradnock, Harry Bradnock. Where did he spring from ? Do you think George, Henry and Harry are all the same person ?

I'm slowly pulling my hair out right now, and I didn't have a lot to start with so I'll be waiting on your reply with great interest !!! :dft005:

 

[mikejee]

Lyn and Snowball
Gt Barr st is shown on map(c 1910). It ran from Watery Lane and became Heath Mill Lane at the junction with Fazeley St. I’m not sure if the building in blue is 96 and the one in red is 97 or whether 96 and 97 are both where the building is marked in red. The 1889 map is no help as it seems to show a blank space to the right of about where the pub is while the directory lists businesses.
Postie’s put it quite well about off and on-licensces. I think many (most?) pubs also had a separate entrance for off sales (for consumption off the premises) These would also sell other odds and ends (crisps, sweets, cigs) also but would not usually be separate from the pub. I don’t know of any pure off-licensees that had a name like the George & Dragon (but if anyone does then please tell us), as this sort of name was usually only used for pubs. You may have heard that the reason for calling them this sort of name originally was because , when people were largely illiterate there had to be a sign they could understand outside and pictures of “george & dragon” “red lion”, “white horse” etc were distinctive.
I wouldn’t worry about the Henry and Harry. Harry is an abbreviation (if that’s the right word) of Henry, so they are almost certainly the same.
I think, with a name like the Geroge & Dragon it must have been a pub, but possibly part of the frontage on the ground floor was let out as a greengrocers (who wouldn’t appear on the census). M eanwhile Henry had a day job as a nail caster , as shown in the census, while his wife managed the pub.

mike

 

[Astoness]

well i never mike...i didnt realise that gt barr st changed to heath mill lane....i do agree though that with a name like the george and dragon it surely must have been a proper pub...finding a pic of may be difficult...

thanks also for all that added info...we live and learn..

lyn

 

[Sue Fardoe]

Thanks for the information Mike. My Mother is still a lively 90 years of age and her memory of the past is really remarkable. She can remember the George and Dragon very well since the place had featured in our family and her own Mother, Julia Bradnock was born there. She said that it was an "off licence" whatever that means, can you explain the difference between an "off license" and a public house.

According to my records based on sites like findmypast and Ancestry etc. the George and Dragon had the address of 96 & 97 Great Barr Street. Your post suggests that it was only 96, can you elaborate on this ?

I had thought that the original Bradnocks that managed/owned the George and Dragon were George and Charlotte Bradnock. If my information is correct then they passed the place on to their eldest son Joseph who was married to Sarah (nee Venables). In the 1871 Census the first Bradnocks were listed as Henry and Charlotte not George and Charlotte. This makes it a bit confusing so I'm not too thrilled at finding that your records of 97 Great Barr Street introduce yet another Bradnock, Harry Bradnock. Where did he spring from ? Do you think George, Henry and Harry are all the same person ?

I'm slowly pulling my hair out right now, and I didn't have a lot to start with so I'll be waiting on your reply with great interest !!! :dft005:

Hi. Just found out I am related to William Bradnock b 1787 in Berkswell and married to Esther Townsend they had 9 kids. One being George born 1840 in Leamington. Could we be related