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Francis Ellen Family tree research- Im stuck :(

J

jamesg1977

master brummie
Hi all

I apologise profusely if I have posted this in the wrong section of the forum, but i have a query. I have been searching records through Ancestory.com. and I have found a birth record of someone called Ellen Francis born 1901 in Bromyard. I can't however find any record of any such person/family in 1901 census (or her family), can't understand as to why she would not appear. I know its Brummagem related, and it may be posted in an inappropriate section. I apologise for this, but would anyone have any advice as to why this would be the case and as to how i can discover more info by other means???

Many thanks for your time

James
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Hi James, Perhaps her birth was after the 1901 census was taken and she died before the next census?
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

She didnt die till 1962. I like your angle, but im suprised that i cant find anyone with the Francis surname, that lived in Bromyard in 1901. The only person i found was someone born in Yorkshire, who was listed as being a visitor in that household the night of the census. :(
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Just done a quick look up on FreeBDM and an Ellen Francis is shown as born in March 1901 at Bromyard. The 1901 census was taken on 31st March 1901. It may well be right what Pollypops has said above.

Bromyard does have its own local history society https://bromyardhistorysociety.org.uk/
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

I thought id try this forum, because of how useful and helpful it always has been, which you and Pollypops have again proved :) :) Im stumped by the fact i cant find any record of her parents on a census return for that year.
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

1901 Address Winsteel, Cradley
Thomas Francis,aged 50 born 1851 Aconbury,Herefordshire Ordinary Farm Labourer
Annie Francis, Wife aged 38 born 1863 Felton, Herefordshire
Willie Francis, Son aged 5 born 1896 Cradley, Herefordshire
Geo Francis, Son aged 2 born 1899 Cradley, Herefordshire
Ellen Francis,Daughter aged 2 Mths born 1901 Bromyard,Herefordshire

Piece: 2490
Folio: 72
Page: 10
Registration District: Bromyard
Civil Parish: Cradley
Municipal Borough:
Address: Winsteel, Cradley
County: Herefordshire
 
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Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Just looked on 1901 census on-line, it returns a result for an Ellen Francis aged 0, adminstrative county Hereford, civil parish Cradley, you need to pay to get the details but maybe thats her?

Cradley shown on current Google maps as just over 7 miles from Bromyard
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Was the person staying in Bromyard with the name of Francis a female - possibly Ellen's mother sent away to have her baby?
Was the person male? and if so was there an unmarried female in that household that would be the right age to have a baby?
Do you know who Ellen Francis's parents were?

Maybe Ellen was born in Bromyard while her mother/parents were visiting/staying in the area and their stay did not include the night of the census (they left before the census was taken?) or maybe they were there but not included on the census as visitors by mistake?

Hope you understand all this
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Well done ladylinda - that certainly looks like the Ellen Francis James is looking for!
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Ellen is down as Nellie in 1911 born Cradley

1911 census transcription details for: Bebbury Cottage Ullingswick Pencombe
National Archive Reference:
RG14PN15784 RG78PN963 RD339 SD1 ED15 SN44
Reg. District:
Bromyard
Sub District:
Bishops Frome
Parish:
Ullingswick
Enum. District:
15
Address:
Bebbury Cottage Ullingswick Pencombe
County:
Herefordshire

Name
Relation
Condition/
Yrs married
Sex
Age
Birth Year
Occupation
Where Born
FRANCIS, Thomas
Head
Married
 M
63
1848
Farm Hand General Workman
Herefordshire Little Birch
FRANCIS, Annie
Wife
Married
20 years
 F
42
1869
Hereford St Peters
FRANCIS, George
Son
 M
12
1899
Herefordshire Cradley
FRANCIS, Nellie
Daughter
 F
10
1901
Herefordshire Cradley
FRANCIS, Annie
Daughter
 F
7
1904
Herefordshire Felton
WILLIAMS, William
Lodger
 M
44
1867
Blacksmith Shoeing And General
Herefordshire Little Cowarne
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Well done bewdley - that was going to be my next suggestion as I know that Nellie/Nelly was often the pet name for girls named Ellen or Helen.
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Pollypops, Dwilly, LadyLinda, Bewdley

Thankyou so so so much for this, this all tallys up almost perfect, i have only one concern in that (ive only just been told sorry) that Ellen had a sister named Elsie born 1896. Elsie doesnt seem to appear in any of these records?

James
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

...........and Just when we thought it was sorted....... lol............perhaps the 1901 census was not transcribed correctly and Willie was Elsie?
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

FreeBDM lists a Elsie Winifred Francis born June 1896 in Bromyard
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Thats what im thinking, maybe Willie is Winnie because the age matches. Do you think this sounds likely?

Sorry to add to you evening Pollypops & Dwilly :(

James
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

In 1911 Elsie would have been 15/16 - she may have been a servant/maid and living with her employers - this was very common especially in rural areas.
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

James don't apologise - the football is on and I am sitting with three footie fans - I was bored until you posted all this!

Perhaps ladylinda could have another look at the original 1901 - and someone could also look for Elise Winifred/ Winnie living elsewhere - sorry I don't have access to the censuses.
 
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Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

The most amazing part of this story is that Ellen Francis changed her name to Frances Ellen Martin between sometime before 1928, there is some unknown fact that has led to this, a mystery that will probably never be solved.
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Lol Pollypops my girlfriend is that excited with the football game, she is happily asleep on the sofa!
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

That is a mystery James - did she stay in Hereford all her life - or did you say there was a connection to Birmingham? If she moved to Birmingham some people on here have access to the Birmingham electoral rolls. Did she get married?
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

That is probably what I would be doing if your Ellen Francis wasn't keeping me awake.....lol
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

Im the Brummy, i moved to Kidderminster in 2006 with my girlfriend who is from Kidderminster. The lady in question is my girlfriends great grandmother. She moved to Kidderminster in 1928, and at that point married a Michael Callaghan (born 1893) she died in Kidderminster in 1962. Ancestory.com shows that her maiden name on the marriage record as being Martin.
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

There is this Elsie in 1911?
1911 White House Bockleton Tenbury
Mary Ann Pratt, Widow aged 58 born 1853 Llanbadarn Fynydd Wales Farmer
R G Pratt, Son aged 22 born 1889 Hatfield Herefordshire House Joiner
F Woyencroft, Nephew aged 15 born 1896 Presteign Radnorshire Gardener Domestic
Elsie FRANCIS, Niece aged 14 born 1897 Hatfield Herefordshire

RG number: RG14
Piece: 15797
Reference: RG14PN15797 RG78PN964 RD339 SD2 ED13 SN11
Registration District: Bromyard
Sub District: Bromyard
Enumeration District: 13
Parish: Thornbury
Address: White House Bockleton Tenbury
County: Herefordshire
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

lol Pollypops, hey im a footie fan, but in all honestly the only thing England tend to inspire me to do is fall asleep also :)
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

LadyLinda

So at some point between 1896 and 1901, Elsie may have moved in with her uncle & aunt! hmm interesting.
 
Re: Family tree research- Im stuck :(

James don't you mean between 1901 and 1911? In 1901 we think she is listed as Willie/Winnie????
 
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