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Death Certificate wording and operating Crematoria in 1955.

white3012

proper brummie kid
Hi All

A couple of questions in relation to my post in Surname Interests of a couple of days ago about a family of Baxters relates to a lady, Emily White who was living with them at separate addresses for about 30 years.

Emily White died aged 82 on 17.03.1955 while living at 157 Hansons Bridge Road, Erdington with the Baxters, the informant just two days later on the 19th was G.W.Baxter of 157 Hansons Bridge Road and is listed on the certificate as "causing the body to be cremated". Now between myself and my Dad who has being doing the family tree we must of amassed about 110 certificates (birth, marriage and death combined), its the first time we have come across such an oddly worded phrase, which we assume means that Emily had already being cremated, but after just two days?

Now on visits to Birmingham Archives and to Crematoria my dad has failed to locate one with a record of Emily's cremation, he has checked with the Crematoria at Perry Barr, Streetly, Sutton, Yardley, Lodge Hill, Sandwell, Robin Hood and Woodlands, out of that eight only four were in operation in 1955 and of that four one didn't open until the October. My dad has even checked with Witton Cemetery just on the off chance but to no avail.

So, as anyone else ever come across such a phrase on a death certificate before (even the the people my dad spoke to at the archives don't recall seeing anything like that), and where there any other crematoria in operation at the time that we are not aware of and are no longer in operation, if not where do we look next?

Steve
 

Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
Hi steve, I have looked this up on a few genealogy sites and in every case they say the the wording has been used on a certificate that has been
issued to a 'non relative' or to member of Social services.
For what reason seems unclear. Alberta.
 

Morturn

Super Moderator
Staff member
I have been talking to my wife about this, as we have seen similar remarks on other death certs. It may be when the registrar asked G.W.Baxter what his relationship with the diseased was, they recorded that he described himself as the person "causing the body to be cremated".

This could happen if the person reporting the death is not related, but is responsible for the arrangements, the registrar is obliged to put a description of the informant.
 

Bojalu

master brummie
Morturn, Where did you purchase the certificate from the Birmingham Reg Office or GRO ?
Perhaps you could telephone and see if they can shed any light on the wording.
 
W

Wendy

Guest
Ring John Yates at Birmingham he is very helpful and knowledgeable.
 

white3012

proper brummie kid
Interesting comments about the informant not being related, hence the unusual wording, I checked all copies of death certificates I have and in all cases the informant was related, the information given was just name, relationship to the deceased and address.

Wendy, where is John Yates based, the Birmingham Reg Office or the Archives?

Steve
 

Bojalu

master brummie
Steve, John Yates is also a Genealogist attached to Register office, based at Birmingham, rather than Birmingham Archives . He is very helpful. Did you purchase the Cert from Birmingham? John also gives some excellent talks / lectures at various venues that are often humorous and moving.
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
Hi All

A couple of questions in relation to my post in Surname Interests of a couple of days ago about a family of Baxters relates to a lady, Emily White who was living with them at separate addresses for about 30 years.

Emily White died aged 82 on 17.03.1955 while living at 157 Hansons Bridge Road, Erdington with the Baxters, the informant just two days later on the 19th was G.W.Baxter of 157 Hansons Bridge Road and is listed on the certificate as "causing the body to be cremated". Now between myself and my Dad who has being doing the family tree we must of amassed about 110 certificates (birth, marriage and death combined), its the first time we have come across such an oddly worded phrase, which we assume means that Emily had already being cremated, but after just two days?

Now on visits to Birmingham Archives and to Crematoria my dad has failed to locate one with a record of Emily's cremation, he has checked with the Crematoria at Perry Barr, Streetly, Sutton, Yardley, Lodge Hill, Sandwell, Robin Hood and Woodlands, out of that eight only four were in operation in 1955 and of that four one didn't open until the October. My dad has even checked with Witton Cemetery just on the off chance but to no avail.

So, as anyone else ever come across such a phrase on a death certificate before (even the the people my dad spoke to at the archives don't recall seeing anything like that), and where there any other crematoria in operation at the time that we are not aware of and are no longer in operation, if not where do we look next?

Steve

hello steve..i have the same wording on a death cert of a rellie of mine who died in the 1980s in a nursing home in aston lane as no relatives could be found..it is doubtful that emily would have been cremated just 2 days after her death what it means is that the informant registered her 2 days after she died...what i do find strange is that no record can be found of the cremation as your dad seems to have tried everywhere...

lyn
 

white3012

proper brummie kid
Steve, John Yates is also a Genealogist attached to Register office, based at Birmingham, rather than Birmingham Archives . He is very helpful. Did you purchase the Cert from Birmingham? John also gives some excellent talks / lectures at various venues that are often humorous and moving.

My dad and I both get certificates when needed, I get mine from the GRO and my dad who still lives in Birmingham gets his from the Register Office in Birmingham, Emily's death certificate was one my dad obtained so it came from the Register Office.

If John Yates is attached to the Register Office is he based there as well, however where ever he is based I will get my dad to speak to him, is there a charge for his time?


Going back to a site for the cremation of Emily's body as mentioned in Astoness's post, as my dad seems to have tried all the Crematoria in Birmingham as anyone got any idea where it might of taken place, there is of course the possibility that there was a change of mind and she was buried instead, if so we at least know Witton is already ruled out.

Steve
 

Alberta

Super Moderator
Staff member
I wonder if George and Eva would have put a notice in the local paper notifying where Emilys funeral would be held,just a thought.
 

white3012

proper brummie kid
Alberta

Thank you for that excellent suggestion its one that neither my dad or I had thought of, I have mentioned it to him saying its a suggestion that has come from the Birmingham History Forum, he is going to start on that during his next visit to the Archives.

Steve
 

Astonian

gone but not forgotten
HI STEVE AND ALBERTA ;
STEVE ; seems to have contacted all the crematoriums and it spring to my mind of yester years there was cremations going on at ickneld street
cemetry i think it was still going on up until the 1950,s when it was all stopped there and it laid unused for many years through until the sixtys i think it was not much later than that when they demolished it pror to that i think there was one over at little bromwich i think in the fortys
but may be our wendys department may know of some think or of our bryan at warstone lane
he cancheck the old archives for relaives putting it the news papers as they did in those days stating the burrial arrangements for the said person whom would have passed away best of luck steve in your search best wishes astonian;;
 
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rosie

brummie
I'm sorry this won't be much help but as far as I know there wasn't a crematorium at Key Hill Cemetery in Icknield St. just the Chapel, and the same at Warstone Lane Cemetery.
Find My Past have newspapers but they only go up to about 1900.
rosie.
 

white3012

proper brummie kid
Astonian and rosie

Thank you very much for your replies, I would have replied sooner but my laptop has picked up a virus, so I'm having to use computer in the local library if and when I can get one.

The possibility of a crematorium in Icknield St seemed an exciting prospect in the effort to find the site of Emily's cremation, I can see how a chapel might be confused for a crematoria building, does anyone know for definite if there was or wasn't a crematorium in Icknield St, if not would the Archives or even John Yates be the best person to ask?

Last time I contacted my dad he has checked the Birmingham Mail Obituraries and has turned up nothing, on his next visit he is going to try the Birmingham Post, we shall see what comes of that.

Thank you all for the suggestions so far.

Steve
 

white3012

proper brummie kid
Hi All

It's been a good few years since I've been on here, life and a serious illness got in the way.

Anyway back to this thread, for those who were kind enough to help with my original question, I eventually got an answer to it.

At the end of 2018 after Birmingham Council put all the death records on line, I downloaded Emily's Death Record. It looks like she was cremated at Yardley on 23rd March 1955, her ashes were later scattered in the Garden of Rest. I have still, yet to come across the comment "causing the body to be cremated" on a death certificate in my continued research.

Steve
 

pjmburns

master brummie
According to several genealogy sites the phrase is used when the informant was not present at death and is not a relative but IS the person informing the undertakers what will happen.
It could also be "causing the body to be buried".
 

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
According to several genealogy sites the phrase is used when the informant was not present at death and is not a relative but IS the person informing the undertakers what will happen.
It could also be "causing the body to be buried".

i have a relative who has" causing the body to be cremated" on her death cert in 1985...she died in a nursing home with no relatives present or to organise her funeral.. i would think the informant was the owner of the nursing home.. i found out that she did not have any family at her funeral just a representative from the home

lyn
 
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white3012

proper brummie kid
i have a relative who has" causing the body to be cremated" on her death cert in 1985...she died in a nursing home with no relatives present or to organise her funeral.. i would think the informant was the owner of the nursing home.. i found out that she did not have any family at her funeral just a representative from the home

lyn

In Emily's case, although she seems to have lodged with the Baxter's for decades, she was the last surviving member of her family. So a similar scenario.
 
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