-
Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.
We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team -
HI folks the server that hosts the site completely died including the Hdd's and backups.
Luckily i create an offsite backup once a week! this has now been restored so we have lost a few days posts.
im still fixing things at the moment so bear with me and im still working on all images 90% are fine the others im working on now
we are now using a backup solution
Coulthard Sarah Jane
- Thread starter jjuj
- Start date
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Sorry i don't have them in the 1891 census. Am waiting for relative in Birmingham to get Marriage certificate. I know they were both born in Birmingham. The ref for their marriage is 6d 107. june quater.
in the 1901 census they lived 9 sherborne street 4 court 4 house. son william 16 son henry 13 son percy 4 months. They had another son percy horace 1898.
I am new and learing slowly
Sorry i don't have them in the 1891 census. Am waiting for relative in Birmingham to get Marriage certificate. I know they were both born in Birmingham. The ref for their marriage is 6d 107. june quater.
in the 1901 census they lived 9 sherborne street 4 court 4 house. son william 16 son henry 13 son percy 4 months. They had another son percy horace 1898.
I am new and learing slowly
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Hi jjuj,
When you are posting a reference to a census it is often useful to include the folio number etc so others can go to the page more easily to check.
The ref for the 1901 census you have quoted from is RG13; Piece: 2828; Folio: 58; Page: 32.
In 1901 William was 48, a brass turner and born in Birmingham and Sarah J was 42 and a button carder born in Birmingham. The kids were all born in Birmingham. I have included these details in case anyone else starts looking for you.
In 1891 census they are at:
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical Parish: St barnabas
Town: Birmingham
County Warwickshire
Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-Registration District: Lady Wood
RG12; Piece: 2368; Folio 131; Page 23
Address: 4 Bk 10 Sherborne St
William Green, Head, Married, 39, Brass Turner & Screwer, Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Sarah Jane Green, Wife, Married, 34, Button Carder, Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
William Green, Son, 6, Scholar, Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Henry Green, Son, 3, Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
James Green, Son, 4 months, Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Hi jjuj,
When you are posting a reference to a census it is often useful to include the folio number etc so others can go to the page more easily to check.
The ref for the 1901 census you have quoted from is RG13; Piece: 2828; Folio: 58; Page: 32.
In 1901 William was 48, a brass turner and born in Birmingham and Sarah J was 42 and a button carder born in Birmingham. The kids were all born in Birmingham. I have included these details in case anyone else starts looking for you.
In 1891 census they are at:
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical Parish: St barnabas
Town: Birmingham
County Warwickshire
Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-Registration District: Lady Wood
RG12; Piece: 2368; Folio 131; Page 23
Address: 4 Bk 10 Sherborne St
William Green, Head, Married, 39, Brass Turner & Screwer, Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Sarah Jane Green, Wife, Married, 34, Button Carder, Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
William Green, Son, 6, Scholar, Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Henry Green, Son, 3, Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
James Green, Son, 4 months, Born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
They seem to be at the same place in 1891, but it is described as no 4 back 10 sherborne st. The 1920 electoral roll shows that court 4 is between nos 9 and 10.
Present are:
William 39 brass turner & screwer
Sarah Jane 34 button carder
William 6 scholar
Henry 3
James 4 months
All born in Birmingham . Presumably James died as an infant
Mike
They seem to be at the same place in 1891, but it is described as no 4 back 10 sherborne st. The 1920 electoral roll shows that court 4 is between nos 9 and 10.
Present are:
William 39 brass turner & screwer
Sarah Jane 34 button carder
William 6 scholar
Henry 3
James 4 months
All born in Birmingham . Presumably James died as an infant
Mike
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Hi Mikejee,
Sorry it was James 4 months. great Uncle Percy who was born in 1899. James has been a surprise.
my now elderly relatives are anxious to find out more about Sarah Jane.
jjuj
Hi Mikejee,
Sorry it was James 4 months. great Uncle Percy who was born in 1899. James has been a surprise.
my now elderly relatives are anxious to find out more about Sarah Jane.
jjuj
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
You could try looking on FreeBMD. The thing to be careful of however is that she is flexible with her age - though she does appear to be consistent with her birth place as Birmingham.
The marriage certificate will not tell you where she was born. It will record her age (which may well be different to what we have already found given her history) and should include the name and occupation of her father. With these details it should be possible to pick her up on the 1861 census which may be more accurate as her parents would have supplied her details.
There is this possibility in the 1861 census but it is just guesswork:
Civil Parish: Edgbaston
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Registration District: Kings Norton
Sub-Registration District: Edgbaston
RG9; Piece: 2123; Folio: 52; Page: 46
Ct 44 Lee Bank Rd
Hannah Colthard, Wife, Married, 31, Wife to bricklayer labourer, Born Worcester
Mary A Colthard, Daughter, 7, Born Upton on Severn, Worcester
William J Colthard, Son, 4, Born Edgbaston
Sarah J Colthard, Daughter, 3, Born Edgbaston
Elizabeth Colthard, Daughter 3 months, Born Edgbaston
Doug
You could try looking on FreeBMD. The thing to be careful of however is that she is flexible with her age - though she does appear to be consistent with her birth place as Birmingham.
The marriage certificate will not tell you where she was born. It will record her age (which may well be different to what we have already found given her history) and should include the name and occupation of her father. With these details it should be possible to pick her up on the 1861 census which may be more accurate as her parents would have supplied her details.
There is this possibility in the 1861 census but it is just guesswork:
Civil Parish: Edgbaston
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Registration District: Kings Norton
Sub-Registration District: Edgbaston
RG9; Piece: 2123; Folio: 52; Page: 46
Ct 44 Lee Bank Rd
Hannah Colthard, Wife, Married, 31, Wife to bricklayer labourer, Born Worcester
Mary A Colthard, Daughter, 7, Born Upton on Severn, Worcester
William J Colthard, Son, 4, Born Edgbaston
Sarah J Colthard, Daughter, 3, Born Edgbaston
Elizabeth Colthard, Daughter 3 months, Born Edgbaston
Doug
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Thank you again for your help I will wait to get the marriage and hopefully birth certuficates as well
jjuj
Thank you again for your help I will wait to get the marriage and hopefully birth certuficates as well
jjuj
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
This is them in the 1911 census:
Registration District: Birmingham
Sub District: Lady Wood
Parish: Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Reference: RG14PN17991 RG78PN1095 RD384 SD1 ED3 SN130
Address: 7 Sherborne St Birmingham
Rooms: Four
William Green, Head, 59, Married, Married 26 years, 4 children, 3 living, 1 deceased, Occupation Brass Work, Lathe & Vice, Worker, Born Balsall Heath, Birmingham
Sarah Jane green, Wife, 52, Occupation Button Carder, Worker, Home, Born Ladywood, Birmingham
William Green, Son, 26, Occupation Tube Worker, Labourer, Worker, Born Ladywood, Birmingham
Harry Green, Son, 23, Occupation Motor Cycle Worker, Turner, Worker, Born Ladywood, Birmingham
Percy Horace Green, Son, 12, School, Born Ladywood, Birmingham
Doug
This is them in the 1911 census:
Registration District: Birmingham
Sub District: Lady Wood
Parish: Birmingham
County: Warwickshire
Reference: RG14PN17991 RG78PN1095 RD384 SD1 ED3 SN130
Address: 7 Sherborne St Birmingham
Rooms: Four
William Green, Head, 59, Married, Married 26 years, 4 children, 3 living, 1 deceased, Occupation Brass Work, Lathe & Vice, Worker, Born Balsall Heath, Birmingham
Sarah Jane green, Wife, 52, Occupation Button Carder, Worker, Home, Born Ladywood, Birmingham
William Green, Son, 26, Occupation Tube Worker, Labourer, Worker, Born Ladywood, Birmingham
Harry Green, Son, 23, Occupation Motor Cycle Worker, Turner, Worker, Born Ladywood, Birmingham
Percy Horace Green, Son, 12, School, Born Ladywood, Birmingham
Doug
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
This is a possibility for her birth:
Name: Sarah Jane Coalthard
Year: 1858
Quarter Apr-May-Jun
District: Kings Norton
County: Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: 402
The index image shows that she was recorded as Coalthard but that may have been an error when the data was transcribed from the register to the index. Or the person who recorded or supplied the original details spelt the surname incorrectly.
Doug
This is a possibility for her birth:
Name: Sarah Jane Coalthard
Year: 1858
Quarter Apr-May-Jun
District: Kings Norton
County: Staffordshire, Warwickshire, Worcestershire
Volume: 6c
Page: 402
The index image shows that she was recorded as Coalthard but that may have been an error when the data was transcribed from the register to the index. Or the person who recorded or supplied the original details spelt the surname incorrectly.
Doug
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Hi,
I now have the wedding certificate of William Green & Sarah Jane Coulthard. April 6th 1884. St Judes Church 6d 107. Both of their occupations are the same and looks like Chandalier workers! No address given - says both of this parish.
Wiliam Greeen age 32 - father Thomas Green - shoe maker
Sarah Jane Coulthard age 26 - father James Coulthard cannot make out his occupation.
the 2 witnesses A Green [who made his mark]x
C Green [who made her mark]x
I have been unable to link Sarah Jane with her father James Coulthard or William with his father Thomas Green
I am still stuck :cry: and would really appreciate your help
Hi,
I now have the wedding certificate of William Green & Sarah Jane Coulthard. April 6th 1884. St Judes Church 6d 107. Both of their occupations are the same and looks like Chandalier workers! No address given - says both of this parish.
Wiliam Greeen age 32 - father Thomas Green - shoe maker
Sarah Jane Coulthard age 26 - father James Coulthard cannot make out his occupation.
the 2 witnesses A Green [who made his mark]x
C Green [who made her mark]x
I have been unable to link Sarah Jane with her father James Coulthard or William with his father Thomas Green
I am still stuck :cry: and would really appreciate your help
Last edited:
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
There is this in the 1871:
Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical Parish: St John
County: Warwickshire
Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: Lady Wood
RG10; Piece: 3094; Folio: 30; Page: 9
Address: 1 Court, Ellorville? St
James Coulthard, Head, M, Labourer, ?, Lanca
Hannah Coulthard, Wife, M, 40, Formerly Domestic, Worcester
Mary Coulthard, Dau, Um, 17, Formerly Domestic, Worcester
Willm Coulthard, Son, Um, 15, Brass Filer, Birmingham
Sarah Coulthard, Dau, Um, 13, Scholar, Birmingham
Annie Coulthard, Dau, Um, 8, Scholar, Birmingham
Selina Coulthard, Dau, Um, 6, Scholar, Birmingham
There is this in the 1871:
Civil parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical Parish: St John
County: Warwickshire
Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: Lady Wood
RG10; Piece: 3094; Folio: 30; Page: 9
Address: 1 Court, Ellorville? St
James Coulthard, Head, M, Labourer, ?, Lanca
Hannah Coulthard, Wife, M, 40, Formerly Domestic, Worcester
Mary Coulthard, Dau, Um, 17, Formerly Domestic, Worcester
Willm Coulthard, Son, Um, 15, Brass Filer, Birmingham
Sarah Coulthard, Dau, Um, 13, Scholar, Birmingham
Annie Coulthard, Dau, Um, 8, Scholar, Birmingham
Selina Coulthard, Dau, Um, 6, Scholar, Birmingham
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
This might be William in the 1871:
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical Parish: Emmanuel
County: Warwickshire
Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-Registration District: St Thomas
RG10; Piece: 3101; Folio: 102; Page: 6
Address: 23 ? Street
Thomas Green, Head, Mar, 47, Shoemaker, Staffordshire, Herborne?
Hannah Green, Wife, Mar, 46, Gloucester, Kingswood
William Green, Son, Unm, 18, Brassfounder, Birmingham
Alfred green, Son, Unm, 15, Brassfounder, Birmingham
Henry Green, Son, 13, At Steel Works, Birmingham
Elizabeth Green, Dau, 8, Scholar, Staffordshire, Herborne?
Samuel Green, Son, 5, Scholar, Staffordshire, Herborne?
This might be William in the 1871:
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical Parish: Emmanuel
County: Warwickshire
Registration District: Birmingham
Sub-Registration District: St Thomas
RG10; Piece: 3101; Folio: 102; Page: 6
Address: 23 ? Street
Thomas Green, Head, Mar, 47, Shoemaker, Staffordshire, Herborne?
Hannah Green, Wife, Mar, 46, Gloucester, Kingswood
William Green, Son, Unm, 18, Brassfounder, Birmingham
Alfred green, Son, Unm, 15, Brassfounder, Birmingham
Henry Green, Son, 13, At Steel Works, Birmingham
Elizabeth Green, Dau, 8, Scholar, Staffordshire, Herborne?
Samuel Green, Son, 5, Scholar, Staffordshire, Herborne?
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Thanks for the clarification. I must admit to not being the best at reading old handwriting.
Doug
Thanks for the clarification. I must admit to not being the best at reading old handwriting.
Doug
ladylinda
master brummie
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
I found this for 1881 census,and it appears to be the same Coulthard family?
Coldthard James 54 Head Stone Mason born Lancashire
Coldthard Hannah 49 Wife born Worcestershire
Coldthard William J 24 Son Chandelier Maker born Birmingham,
Coldthard Samuel 18 Son Brass Cabinet Work born Birmingham,
Coldthard Agnes 17 Daughter Unemployed born Birmingham,
Coldthard Selina 16 Daughter Steel Pen Maker born Birmingham.
all living at 8 Ruston Street North, Birmingham, Warwickshire (just round the corner from Morville Street and Tennant Street!)
I found this for 1881 census,and it appears to be the same Coulthard family?
Coldthard James 54 Head Stone Mason born Lancashire
Coldthard Hannah 49 Wife born Worcestershire
Coldthard William J 24 Son Chandelier Maker born Birmingham,
Coldthard Samuel 18 Son Brass Cabinet Work born Birmingham,
Coldthard Agnes 17 Daughter Unemployed born Birmingham,
Coldthard Selina 16 Daughter Steel Pen Maker born Birmingham.
all living at 8 Ruston Street North, Birmingham, Warwickshire (just round the corner from Morville Street and Tennant Street!)
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
That's fantastic. I found Hannah [a widow] and Selina at same address 8 Ruston Street in 1891.
Ruston Street is near Sherborne Street where her sister Sarah Jane & William Green lived and died. She helped to nurse Sarah who was very ill. Sarah & William apparently both died on the same day. Neither knew about the other - So am now searching aound 1912-15 for this sad occasion.
Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it
jj
That's fantastic.
I found Hannah [a widow] and Selina at same address 8 Ruston Street in 1891. Ruston Street is near Sherborne Street where her sister Sarah Jane & William Green lived and died. She helped to nurse Sarah who was very ill. Sarah & William apparently both died on the same day. Neither knew about the other
- So am now searching aound 1912-15 for this sad occasion.Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it
jj
ladylinda
master brummie
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Hi there,I found these 2 deaths for you.They are in different registers,but that may be because one of them died at home and the other in hospital or something.They are the same year and quarter.The ages appear to be right too.Hope this helps.
Sarah J Green
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Year of Registration: 1915
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 57
District: Birmingham (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume:6d,Page:137
William Green
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Year of Registration: 1915
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 63
District: Aston (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume:6d,Page:521
Hi there,I found these 2 deaths for you.They are in different registers,but that may be because one of them died at home and the other in hospital or something.They are the same year and quarter.The ages appear to be right too.Hope this helps.
Sarah J Green
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Year of Registration: 1915
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 57
District: Birmingham (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume:6d,Page:137
William Green
Estimated birth year: abt 1852
Year of Registration: 1915
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
Age at Death: 63
District: Aston (1837-1924)
County: Warwickshire
Volume:6d,Page:521
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Hi, Thank you so much.
You are quite right. Sarah died at home and William in hospital. I found the entry for Sarah as you did, but not William so could not fathom why this was, or what I was doing wrong. I knew it to be a true fact they died on the same day and there was a joint funeral, so I am really happy you found William's entry for me.
jj
Hi, Thank you so much.
You are quite right. Sarah died at home and William in hospital. I found the entry for Sarah as you did, but not William so could not fathom why this was, or what I was doing wrong. I knew it to be a true fact they died on the same day and there was a joint funeral, so I am really happy you found William's entry for me.
jj
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
jj
It is coming together beautifully, and I have you and other wonderful people on this site to thank for helping me.Looks like it is all coming together then.
jj
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
We have not produced a certificate as there is no trace of the above mentioned person at the reference you quoted
I have applied for this birth certificate for sarah jane as it is the only possibility i could find also. I did not use this spelling but the the one she uses on her marriage cert [coulthard]. her age on marr cert is 26, in 1824 so 1858 seems to be about right for her birth. Would the spelling be the reason they could not find her or perhaps that the parents names did not match? so not sure what to do next!
Any advice would be appreciated.
Jean
.
We have not produced a certificate as there is no trace of the above mentioned person at the reference you quoted
I have applied for this birth certificate for sarah jane as it is the only possibility i could find also. I did not use this spelling but the the one she uses on her marriage cert [coulthard]. her age on marr cert is 26, in 1824 so 1858 seems to be about right for her birth. Would the spelling be the reason they could not find her or perhaps that the parents names did not match? so not sure what to do next!
Any advice would be appreciated.
Jean
.
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Hi Jean,
If you change the spelling from what is recorded in the indexes the GRO will usually reject the request as it does not match what they have.
If you also included the parents names it may be that they did not match and it is the wrong person. Unfortunately given the name alteration it is not possible to know what data did not match.
You could try replying to the email from the GRO and ask which data was incorrect.
Free BMD has this which confirms the the data previously supplied is correct:
[SIZE=+1]Births Jun 1858
[/SIZE]Coalthard Sarah Jane Kings Norton 6c402
This page may assist.
I would suggest you reapply but do not change the spelling of the name.
Hi Jean,
If you change the spelling from what is recorded in the indexes the GRO will usually reject the request as it does not match what they have.
If you also included the parents names it may be that they did not match and it is the wrong person. Unfortunately given the name alteration it is not possible to know what data did not match.
You could try replying to the email from the GRO and ask which data was incorrect.
Free BMD has this which confirms the the data previously supplied is correct:
[SIZE=+1]Births Jun 1858
[/SIZE]Coalthard Sarah Jane Kings Norton 6c402
This page may assist.
I would suggest you reapply but do not change the spelling of the name.
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Thank you Procat, I will do as you suggest reply to ask which data did not match, then go from there. They have had so many different spellings of the surname that it's getting confusing to know which to use. Her fathers occupation is unreadable on the marriage cert which is a shame.
Jean
Thank you Procat, I will do as you suggest reply to ask which data did not match, then go from there. They have had so many different spellings of the surname that it's getting confusing to know which to use. Her fathers occupation is unreadable on the marriage cert which is a shame.
Jean
Re: Sarah Jane Coulthard
Hi Jean,
A thing to remember when ordering certificates is that the more fields that you put in for the GRO to match the higher the chance of rejection. Remember that while the father for example may have been named John Albert Smith by his parents he may have preferred Albert and was recorded under that name etc etc.
I usually provide as little information as I can.
Doug
Hi Jean,
A thing to remember when ordering certificates is that the more fields that you put in for the GRO to match the higher the chance of rejection. Remember that while the father for example may have been named John Albert Smith by his parents he may have preferred Albert and was recorded under that name etc etc.
I usually provide as little information as I can.
Doug
