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Bowater- City Battalions Roll of Honour 1920
- Thread starter DJRVST
- Start date
terry carter
Birmingham Pals
Yes I have a very old tatty copy with half the pages falling out. But Can I help?
Terry
Terry
DJRVST
master brummie
Terry
Thank you for the response. I am trying to find out if my Grandfathers name appears in the book. I have an idea of his Battalions from his record. I understand there are lists of soldiers names. Would it be possible for you to check easily? I have tried to source a book but live many miles from Birmingham so cannot visit the reference library.
Thanks
Dave
terry carter
Birmingham Pals
The book contains the names of the men who were serving in the three Birmingham battalions and their companies and platoons.
So all I need his as much info that you have. Name rank number etc
Cheers
Terry
So all I need his as much info that you have. Name rank number etc
Cheers
Terry
DJRVST
master brummie
Hi Terry
Thanks. The information I have is taken from "The Burnt Records" and there is water damage. So Name is SC James (Samuel C). Number 28619. Attestation to 7th Territorial Force Reserve 10/12/15. In Field looks like 15th or ?/5. 28/2/17. Also 15th, 16th and 16th (S) mentioned. Served in France and Italy. Is this any help?
Thanks
Dave
terry carter
Birmingham Pals
Hello Dave
Now you have passed on the details, I have had a look at his service papers on Ancestry.
First of all the Book by Bowater, The Birmingham City battalions Book of Honour is not needed. The book relates to the original volunteers of 1914 and those that then joined the battalions to about mid-1915 and who all went to France on 21 November 1915. So Samuel Charles James name does not appear in the book.
Prior to Conscription there was a chance for men to volunteer into what was known as the Derby Scheme or the 'Group System'
There were 46 groups. The first 23 was for single men 18 to 40. Groups 24 to 46 was for married men 18 to 40. Single men were called up first.
Samuel Charles James enlisted on 10 December 1915 at Aston Baths. The following day he was put on Army Reserve until his group was called up. Because he was 37 years old with 5 children he appears to have been in Group 44, and he was called up to begin his training on 15 November 1916.
He done around 3 months training before being posted to France and joined the 15th Royal Warwicks 14 Feb 1917. They served in Italy from Nov 1917 to April 1918.
He had home leave back in UK 11 July 1918 to 25 July 1918. Back to France 26 July 1918.
The Army reduced the size of a Division in 1918 and the 5th Division (containing the 14,15, & 16 Royal Warwicks) were one of the last Divisions to do so. Thus on 8 October 1918, the 14th Warwicks were made a Divisional Pioneer battalion. The 15th Warwicks were disbanded and the men transferred into the 16th Warwicks.
So he did serve in what started as the 2nd Birmingham Battalion (15th Royal Warwicks), but, when he was posted to it the uniqueness of being a Birmingham Battalion had gone. Most of the original volunteers had either been killed or wounded.
Hope this helps
Terry
Now you have passed on the details, I have had a look at his service papers on Ancestry.
First of all the Book by Bowater, The Birmingham City battalions Book of Honour is not needed. The book relates to the original volunteers of 1914 and those that then joined the battalions to about mid-1915 and who all went to France on 21 November 1915. So Samuel Charles James name does not appear in the book.
Prior to Conscription there was a chance for men to volunteer into what was known as the Derby Scheme or the 'Group System'
There were 46 groups. The first 23 was for single men 18 to 40. Groups 24 to 46 was for married men 18 to 40. Single men were called up first.
Samuel Charles James enlisted on 10 December 1915 at Aston Baths. The following day he was put on Army Reserve until his group was called up. Because he was 37 years old with 5 children he appears to have been in Group 44, and he was called up to begin his training on 15 November 1916.
He done around 3 months training before being posted to France and joined the 15th Royal Warwicks 14 Feb 1917. They served in Italy from Nov 1917 to April 1918.
He had home leave back in UK 11 July 1918 to 25 July 1918. Back to France 26 July 1918.
The Army reduced the size of a Division in 1918 and the 5th Division (containing the 14,15, & 16 Royal Warwicks) were one of the last Divisions to do so. Thus on 8 October 1918, the 14th Warwicks were made a Divisional Pioneer battalion. The 15th Warwicks were disbanded and the men transferred into the 16th Warwicks.
So he did serve in what started as the 2nd Birmingham Battalion (15th Royal Warwicks), but, when he was posted to it the uniqueness of being a Birmingham Battalion had gone. Most of the original volunteers had either been killed or wounded.
Hope this helps
Terry
DJRVST
master brummie
Hello Terry
Thanks it is of great help to me. I have been trying to decipher the record and have been researching organisation and movements in order to make sense (to me!!) of the service undertaken by my Granddad who died in the 1960's. I have looked at The Long Trail etc which have been very helpful.
Brilliant reply!!!
Thank you
Dave
Thanks it is of great help to me. I have been trying to decipher the record and have been researching organisation and movements in order to make sense (to me!!) of the service undertaken by my Granddad who died in the 1960's. I have looked at The Long Trail etc which have been very helpful.
Brilliant reply!!!
Thank you
Dave
terry carter
Birmingham Pals
Glad to be of help.
Forgot to say around April 1917 the battalion was serving in the area near Vimy Ridge and late September they moved up to Passchendaele (3rd Ypres) and had to endure the most terrible conditions trying to attack German defenses in what can only be called a quagmire where a soldier had more chance by drowning in liquid mud than being killed by enemy action.
Italy was a bit of a holiday compared to the trenches of France and Belgium. The 5th Division and the battalion returned in April 1917 to plug a gap in our line after a big German push around the area of Merville.
I can put together a more detailed account of the 15th Warwicks movements if you require.
Regards
Terry
Forgot to say around April 1917 the battalion was serving in the area near Vimy Ridge and late September they moved up to Passchendaele (3rd Ypres) and had to endure the most terrible conditions trying to attack German defenses in what can only be called a quagmire where a soldier had more chance by drowning in liquid mud than being killed by enemy action.
Italy was a bit of a holiday compared to the trenches of France and Belgium. The 5th Division and the battalion returned in April 1917 to plug a gap in our line after a big German push around the area of Merville.
I can put together a more detailed account of the 15th Warwicks movements if you require.
Regards
Terry
DJRVST
master brummie
Hello Terry
Thanks for the information. If you are able to give a more detailed account of the 15th's movements that would be brilliant. As there are no formal records of life for the average Tommy I have read two factual books that I found fascinating. Both are probably well known; firstly "Twelve Days on the Somme" by Sidney Rogerson and "A Nurse at the Front"--the First World War Diaries of Sister Edith Appleton. My Grandfather like many said very little about his experiences apart from a couple of short comments,
Thanks
Dave
PS Also "The Last Post" Max Arthur
Thanks for the information. If you are able to give a more detailed account of the 15th's movements that would be brilliant. As there are no formal records of life for the average Tommy I have read two factual books that I found fascinating. Both are probably well known; firstly "Twelve Days on the Somme" by Sidney Rogerson and "A Nurse at the Front"--the First World War Diaries of Sister Edith Appleton. My Grandfather like many said very little about his experiences apart from a couple of short comments,
Thanks
Dave
PS Also "The Last Post" Max Arthur
terry carter
Birmingham Pals
Ok I will sort it
Terry
Terry
