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Area bound by Temple Row Cherry St Corporation St Crooked Lane Bull St

Yes, Great Western Arcade (GWA) is a beautiful survivor (with a particularly good cheese n bread shop) and is opposite North Western Arcade (NWA) on the other side of Temple Row. Going through NWA one arrives at Corporation Street with Barrow's store opposite
https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=32849

From the few pictures found, I think NWA looks if anything more impressive with cast iron street furniture (what look like massive hookahs but I'm sure were lamps) and a clock (I think at the temple Row end - can anyone confirm please?). I know the 50s/60s drive for modernisation was responsible for a lot of tragedies but what we were left with in todays's NWA must rank highly on the list of misery.
 
Aidan i seem to recollect the clock in the middle of NWA and there was a branch that went to Bull St or is this all in my imagination ???Dek
 
Intriguing Dek - on the right of the coloured photo it seems to indicate another branch of NWA - a revelation to me, can anyone verify or have a pic of the entrance or interior please?
 
I've just come across this thread, and will come back tomorrow to read through all of the posts.
Fantastic information thank you all for posting :)
 
I have just seen all of this and have read as much as time permitted. Great idea to disseminate previous postings.

The Cadbury's cocoa shop in an early post was in Bull Street but further up and opposite the Minories I think. The first factory though was further down towards Dale End at the bottom, or there abouts, of Crooked Lane.
I think part of Crooked Lane (may have been called Lower Cherry Street) was covered by Corporation Street and part was lost to Martineau Street but some still remained...an elbow. Mike posted a map on this and it can be seen on the 1890 survey.

I think the back of the latter day Rackhams (House Of Fraser) must be in Corporation Street. The couple of times that I was in there I remember that the entrance was in Temple Row just east of Cherry Street. Which brings to mind that the Cherry Street buildings were not demolished to facilitate the building of Rackhams..the buildings on Temple Row from Rackhams to the famous model shop on the corner of Cherry Street can still be seen to be in place in the photo's of Rackhams/HOF and indeed that is what I remember when passing it all on foot years ago.

I rather think that Temple Row may have been in part the lane that led from the Priory/Old Square to the fish pool that was at the junction of West Temple Row and Colmore Row, or where these roads were to be later. Earlier threads go into this somewhat. The cathedral was way later so that area could have contained a cherry orchard also and the lane may have cut across it diagonally. I wonder why Cherries...but suppose why not.

I have wondered what the mentioned formal gardens were in the back yards. The same configuration appears a lot ie., corner pieces with an oval in the centre and wonder if these were not in fact wells...before houshold plumbing.

I always considered this area to be the city centre...not the Bull Ring or Victoria Square. The demolition of the wonderful houses (Georgian I think) for a store!! was a great loss. I suppose it was prime property at the hub in a time when personal transportation was not yet wide spread and public transport was plentyfull. As it turned out, location on the outskirts with a large parking lot now makes more sense. Or are we now on the back of the curve?
 
mikejee said:
I'm not quite clear where you mean on the photo Aidan
Click to expand...

If you look in the bottom RHS of the card attached it seem to be an archway with North Western Arcade over the top which would form a "T" shaped tunnel as Dek suggested with entrances in Temple Row, Corporation Street & Bull St. It is not certain on the photo so it would be good to get corroboration
 
Thanks Gillian & Rupert.

Not sure I agree with the shapes in the back garden being Wells. If they were all the same symbol then maybe, but if you look at the block of houses here they are all different shapes. The date, arrangement and the fact they are different for each house screams to me Parterre https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parterre but it is not certain.

I think your suggestion of the path from the Priory (The Square https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=31362 ) to the Fish pool https://forum.birminghamhistory.co.uk/showthread.php?t=28443&p=320739#post320739 being along that section of Temple Row is likely.
 
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Aidan
I haven't been in the arcade for quite a long time, but, as I remember it, there used to be an entrance into what was Greys , then Debenhams, which was set back from the main corridor of the arcade. I think this could be what we are seeing, not another branch of the arcade.
 
Rupert said:
I have just seen all of this and have read as much as time permitted. Great idea to disseminate previous postings.

The Cadbury's cocoa shop in an early post was in Bull Street but further up and opposite the Minories I think. The first factory though was further down towards Dale End at the bottom, or there abouts, of Crooked Lane.
I think part of Crooked Lane (may have been called Lower Cherry Street) was covered by Corporation Street and part was lost to Martineau Street but some still remained...an elbow. Mike posted a map on this and it can be seen on the 1890 survey.

I think the back of the latter day Rackhams (House Of Fraser) must be in Corporation Street. The couple of times that I was in there I remember that the entrance was in Temple Row just east of Cherry Street. Which brings to mind that the Cherry Street buildings were not demolished to facilitate the building of Rackhams..the buildings on Temple Row from Rackhams to the famous model shop on the corner of Cherry Street can still be seen to be in place in the photo's of Rackhams/HOF and indeed that is what I remember when passing it all on foot years ago.

I rather think that Temple Row may have been in part the lane that led from the Priory/Old Square to the fish pool that was at the junction of West Temple Row and Colmore Row, or where these roads were to be later. Earlier threads go into this somewhat. The cathedral was way later so that area could have contained a cherry orchard also and the lane may have cut across it diagonally. I wonder why Cherries...but suppose why not.

I have wondered what the mentioned formal gardens were in the back yards. The same configuration appears a lot ie., corner pieces with an oval in the centre and wonder if these were not in fact wells...before houshold plumbing.

I always considered this area to be the city centre...not the Bull Ring or Victoria Square. The demolition of the wonderful houses (Georgian I think) for a store!! was a great loss. I suppose it was prime property at the hub in a time when personal transportation was not yet wide spread and public transport was plentyfull. As it turned out, location on the outskirts with a large parking lot now makes more sense. Or are we now on the back of the curve?
Click to expand...

Just for info, this shot of Crooked Lane, which has had its fair share of notoriety on this Thread, was posted by 'Keeper of The Scrolls' Phil 47 on another thread on another site. He has every Brum photo known to man, especially of Pubs. Hmmmm. Anyway, thought you might like to see it. I don't remember it, but it looks eponomously spooky enough...
 
Thanks Dennis (pp Phil) - lovely evocative shot and I think a rare representation. I think the 1553 map posted earlier shows why it was crooked as it needed to wend it's way through the converging Norman(?) land strips between Bull St & Welch Market (Carrs Lane) and Dale End.
 
The North Western Arcade is still in a T shape now, but sadly, nothing like as grand, and I can also remember the entrance into Greys.

Shortie
 
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Thank you Shortie - that's a relief. I (now) notice that the T Tunnel is clearly shown on Google Maps https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=52...2.481405,-1.895715&spn=0.001614,0.003449&z=18 although Streetview (undated) shows the Bull St entrance blocked off https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=52...=yhby2l58K12hIi1qY5e1ig&cbp=12,248.93,,0,9.06

I like the theory that it was in the arcade - we have had guesses on each side of the block and now the middle! (perhaps best thought of as everywhere and nowhere) - and if so one of the upper balconies must surely have been favourite "take a stroll along the upper terrace Guv'nor?"
 
Replacement image, may vary from original.
3C68EF58-A799-4C98-AC38-AA9A264E2615.jpeg

Here's an interesting picture which comes from Astoness's "old evening mail pics ..." thread. I've magnified it and adjusted the brightness and contrast. The caption reads:
Crooked Lane in September 1959 in the throes of demolition. This ancient street emerged from the Lamb Yard, on the corner of High Street and Bull Street and was a short cut across fields to New Street. By 1750, the lane had been widened and was connected to Temple Street by the newly-formed Cherry Street. Crooked Lane was aptly named after its bending line and it disappeared in the redevelopments of the 1960s. Interestingly, the last folk to live in the Lamb House were the Suffields. They ran a hosiery and lace business and were the maternal grandparents of J R R Tolkien, the scholar of Anglo-Saxon and the author of the world famous The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.​
 
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Thanks Thylacine - great picture and interesting detail. I knew the Tolkiens had to be in there somewhere
 
And from mikejee's "Where is this 185?" comes this picture (posted by pmc1947) of the Old Lamb House (corner of Crooked Lane and Bull Street), with Tolkien's grandparents seen in the upper window (there are more pictures on that thread). The great philologist would have known all about the connotations of "Back of Rackhams"!


Replacement image from the Shoothill site. May vary from original posted.

4C30C9BD-9794-4FB9-9020-4AA4AD70F8DA.jpeg
 
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Lovley thanks - they must have been brave to be at the window but it looks like it is being held up by an RSJ. I see you cannot mention the humanistic study of historical linguistics without lol
 
Hi everyone, only just read this thread - back to Aidan's original questions - in my book on Building Birmingham - Cherry St. was one of a small development dating from the mid18th C. In October 1733 William Hay, toymaker, leased part of Guest's Cherry orchard from Moses Guest. he laid out Cannon St. Hay developed the site and built a second road linking with Guest's with Walkers Cherry Orchard - the road became Cherry St. When St. Philips was consecrated in 1715 a row of houses was built known as Temple Row, which consisted of ten houses in a block divided by Cherry St.
Sheri
 
Anyone know where exactly the Lambs House was. The photo does not show a corner there...houses being on either side. There was also a public well around there somewhere.


Replacement image, may vary from original.
FE070D97-8F9D-4C9E-BE08-8DDB571DE12B.jpeg
Here is obviously the same place...earlier time. There is a map showing that crooked lane was curtailed before it reached Dale End at one point so maybe that is why the photo does not show it...anyway the painting does.
 
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Rupert.
I don't have any maps giving individual buildings, as it was demolished before 1880, but it was at the position of the red dot on the 1839 map below. I think one can call it a sloping corner, not a sharp one
Mike

1839_site_of_old_Lamb_houseB.jpg
 
Thanks Mike. I can't make out an entrance to a lane in the photo but the painting shows it. Looking at the painting a while ago I was under the impression that the passage might have been an extension to Bull Street of Union Passage...even though the title said it was Crooked Lane. So if the photo info is right then the painting passage must be the entrance to High/Bull Sts. of Crooked Lane. The painting also sketches out the window in the adjacent store...same as the photo.
If Crooked lane was curtailed and no longer entered this junction it would explain why it can not be seen in the photo. I am pretty certain that the lane entered Martineau Street and was the lower part of the crook so to speak. So the lane extended that far when Martineau cut it off. Raking through this stuff makes sense of it and is certainly interesting.
 
mikejee said:
Rupert.
I don't have any maps giving individual buildings, as it was demolished before 1880, but it was at the position of the red dot on the 1839 map below. I think one can call it a sloping corner, not a sharp one
Mike
Click to expand...

Not marked but Crooked Lane still discernible on this map of 1860
 
This map shows a termination of Crooked Lane before it reached Bull St. Reported to be 1851. Which would explain it not being in the old photo. mossg is right...the original opening before this possible shortening is pretty much right on the spot of the modern day opening. So put the old premisses right there. Now if we could locate exactly the old Cadbury's factory...no luck yet.
 
Found these two of which are taken from the corner of Bull St in different directions cannot be sure if there is a passage opening between the shops on Bull St. Dek
 
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