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The English Language.

But becomes somewhat complicated when different countries develop different meanings for the same word ie UK and US. Leaving the more bawdy examples, "chip" being an example.
 
Chip would be an example of the evolution. Something new like the integrated circuit come along and someone in the field uses the term chips.
 
Pedrocut said:
Chip would be an example of the evolution. Something new like the integrated circuit come along and someone in the field uses the term chips.
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Actually Pedro I was thinking of "chips" on US being "crisps", and Americans complaining that apparently, they could not get chips in the uk (as they thought the meal was being offered accompanied by crisps). But , as you rightly point out, there is the other ,meaning
 
Perhaps we should all speak a universal language ( Esperanto? ) Maybe that will stop the French from complaining too many speak English. I did try speaking French in France ( where else ) but they looked at me like i was daft, one even asked me if i was German ( A language i could get by on ). Dankershurn bittershurn viedersehen, nock ein bier cummun zee here, i wish i could sprecken zee doych.
 
Smudger said:
Perhaps we should all speak a universal language ( Esperanto? ) Maybe that will stop the French from complaining too many speak English. I did try speaking French in France ( where else ) but they looked at me like i was daft, one even asked me if i was German ( A language i could get by on ). Dankershurn bittershurn viedersehen, nock ein bier cummun zee here, i wish i could sprecken zee doych.
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Some friends in Canada say that Quebec French is very different to French French
 
mikejee said:
Some friends in Canada say that Quebec French is very different to French French
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Something like American & English English...however, Quebec French is, for the most part, spelled the same as French French, but verbally very different. French people have a problem understanding Quebecois, but not the other way round.
Dave A
 
mikejee said:
Derek
The trouble is when people of different groups have completely different definitions of what a word or phrase means. Woke is probably one example, but one of the earliest was probably Gay. "With it" people seem to consider it desirable not to change language by natural development , but by deliberate forced change - if a word meaning, say "good", gets to be more generally understood by the population then it is time to change the used word to something else..
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Brummie a long time ago said:
My reaction is not as polarised, but I do appreciate your point. I have to admit to a pre judgement against anything in that style, so they have to work harder to convince me.


Much the same as why it is harder to learn a foreign language the older one gets. The French I learned at school may be a foundation, but does not relate too well to current usage now. Listening to school children and students now, they might as well be talking a foreign language. (For me, they are).

However, when I was a nipper, my parents and other elders probably felt just the same way.


When gay meant happily dancing through a field of flowers wearing a daisy chain, the 'bad' word was nice. As in "He's a nice boy". Consider also 'queer'.

As for slang and idiomatic speech, Argghhh.

Andrew.
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Andrew, slang and idiomatic speech are very inventive and constantly change (well slang does). Attempts by generations of school teachers to prevent slang usage are ineffectual. There's a wealth of slang in Dickens who listened to popular speech and Black Country slang is nostalgic for me. Derek
 
mikejee said:
Actually Pedro I was thinking of "chips" on US being "crisps", and Americans complaining that apparently, they could not get chips in the uk (as they thought the meal was being offered accompanied by crisps). But , as you rightly point out, there is the other ,meaning
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Can I get fries with that? ;)
 
Tinpot said:
I don’t have a problem with words that have more than one meaning. TINPOT
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No, I assume that you object to the symbolic use of some words or the people who might use them. Most words have more than one meaning, it is the context which makes the intended meaning plain. As in the sign 'Dogs must be carried' on an escalator. Derek
 
mikejee said:
Derek
The trouble is when people of different groups have completely different definitions of what a word or phrase means. Woke is probably one example, but one of the earliest was probably Gay. "With it" people seem to consider it desirable not to change language by natural development , but by deliberate forced change - if a word meaning, say "good", gets to be more generally understood by the population then it is time to change the used word to something else..
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Sometimes, to take a neutral example, language is changed deliberately as when 'inflammable' was replaced by 'flammable' because it was assumed that in British and American English the in- prefix denoted 'not' - in reality: The Latin words inflammare (“to cause to catch fire”) and flammare (“to catch fire”) came into English at different times to become the synonyms inflammable and flammable. Although it seems logical that inflammable might mean “not flammable,” the word actually means the opposite, because the in- prefix of inflammable comes from the Latin word meaning “in” or “into.” Using nonflammable is one way to ensure clarity. {Webster}

But certainly in-groups have produced different language usage which sometimes becomes near universal and often not.

Derek
 
Smudger said:
The English language. All the fancy words in use today & i haven`t a clue what most of them mean....Gas lighting.. Meme... woke...wokander...synergy...onboarding? I`m pleased to say non of those words are used by forum members.
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“Thats Nice,”
 
One thing that I find offensive to the English language. Is the continual reference to “cool.” If it is cold, it can be said to be ” cool”
if it’s ”Nice, or pleasant, say so! Rather than saying it’s “cool,” I am continually correcting my teenage grand children. AC.
 
I'm pretty liberal when it comes to language. Especially now I've finished marking essays forever! I find the adoption of business slang by the general population tedious. Back in the day, no one said OK Boomer, but how will language evolve going forward? The mix of languages on Birmingham central streets is extraordinary.
 
mikejee said:
Boomer? Isn;t that Australian ? from Cell block H?
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It seems to be a disparaging term for the Baby Boomer generation. (I'm one!) as opposed to Millennials or Gen Z (pronounced Zee the American way). As with many of the words and phrases people object to, these are used on the web, Twitter etc. rather than in speech.
 
mikejee said:
It's the Twits who inhabit Twitter I tend to, object to, not the language. While I have a deep wish that Tick Tock is a description of its approaching fate and that it will blow up and destroy itself
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These social media platforms tend to have a limited time span. Twitter is actually good for technical information on computing, but I agree a toxic space generally. (If I can venture such a phrase.)
 
#Wagwan

Anyone come across this one?
Apparently some say it as a greeting and it features in song lyrics.
 
Stokkie said:
#Wagwan

Anyone come across this one?
Apparently some say it as a greeting and it features in song lyrics.
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It sounds gross Stokkie, or is that 144 or maybe my income. I`m confused .com. Btw Stokkie, you remind me of my favourite teacher in my final year at Slade road university?
 
Smudger said:
It sounds gross Stokkie, or is that 144 or maybe my income. I`m confused .com. Btw Stokkie, you remind me of my favourite teacher in my final year at Slade road university?
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No, nothing improper, Smudger. But you have me bang to rights as an English lecturer (dunno Slade Road though). :cool:
 
Never heard Wagwan but looking it up for some it is sort of "eliteist " apparently:
From Google
Why can't we say Wagwan?
Who can say wagwan? Many people argue that white people should not use the phrase - but Grime MC Big Narstie believes the problem is culture not colour. He explained to BBC Three: “I've got white friends who say wagwan and they're not being fake by saying wagwan because they'll smash your face in.

I am sure Jamaican friends I have would look somewhat askance if I used it, or if I called someone Bruv. In the same way as they would if I called them darling (though Fenella Fielding did once call me that in her vampish manner)








goggle
 
mikejee said:
Never heard Wagwan but looking it up for some it is sort of "eliteist " apparently:
From Google
Why can't we say Wagwan?
Who can say wagwan? Many people argue that white people should not use the phrase - but Grime MC Big Narstie believes the problem is culture not colour. He explained to BBC Three: “I've got white friends who say wagwan and they're not being fake by saying wagwan because they'll smash your face in.

I am sure Jamaican friends I have would look somewhat askance if I used it, or if I called someone Bruv. In the same way as they would if I called them darling (though Fenella Fielding did once call me that in her vampish manner)








goggle
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Spot on Mikejee. Jamaican and African terms are coming from Grime, Rap, Urban and other musical forms. Not everyone should assume they can use these words, I wouldn't say Wagwan in public (it means 'What's going on') Dis meaning disrespect seems to be used by white kids now. Lots of things start in London and move rapidly.
 
Chunky AC said:
One thing that I find offensive to the English language. Is the continual reference to “cool.” If it is cold, it can be said to be ” cool”
if it’s ”Nice, or pleasant, say so! Rather than saying it’s “cool,” I am continually correcting my teenage grand children. AC.
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cool meaning its ok. the alfabet here is a be ce de, eh fe ge not abcde so the words in english change like dance. english say darnce we say dance
 
mw0njm. said:
cool meaning its ok. the alfabet here is a be ce de, eh fe ge not abcde so the words in english change like dance. english say darnce we say dance
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Interesting, but as far as British English pronunciation is concerned Birmingham has short /a/ northern, rather than long /a/ southern pronunciation. https://www.bl.uk/british-accents-and-dialects/articles/phonological-variation-across-the-uk
The vowel quality will be different in the varieties on American English. Derek
 
Talking of words in the English language, in schools now they use the words Sulfur, sulfuric acid, in my day it was Sulphur but it was changed in 1971 by the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry,although in USA it had always been spelt as Sulfur
 
I watched an episode of MASH last night. ( Mobile Army Surgical Hospital ) Very popular in the 70`s & still just as funny today. Colonel Blake accused someone of trying to gaslight him, so i guess the term gaslight has been around for some time.
 
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