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Vine Inn Lichfield Road Aston

Slightly wider enlarged view of previous 1889 map. I think there is space for a bowling green in the garden behind the Vine, but there is also the open area outside the garden immediately behind the pub, along Sandy Lave. This obviously isn't just open grounds as there is that circular feature there (fountain?, statue?) Remembering this was some years after the time being considered, there was cetainly something there
map c 1889 vine inn wirh site of cremorn gardens.jpg
 
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yes mike i think you have got it...it would have to be a large area for a bowling green and that space looks bang on.. as well as the circle outside the garden area i see there are 2 circles within the garden area...this site must have looked fantastic in its hey day...
 
Cremorne Gardens was an interesting, if very short, part of the history of the Vine.

The Vine was up for sale in 1863 and it may have been then that Joseph Bandano bought or leased it. It was not until 1866 that it was advertised to the public. But lets face it the name was only a front for the “table dancing” that spilt over from the Great Sultan Divan in Needless Alley.

In June of 1867 Bandano was in the bankruptcy court, and a discharge was given in December. The Grand Sultan Divan and all the tables were sold off.
 
Well done for finding that photo Lyn. I once read that nostalgia is 'a pleasant kind of ache' and the photo certainly gave me one of those. The input from everyone has been smashing! Don't worry Lyn, if you get arrested you can ring and we'll come to the rescue. I keep wondering what they can possibly be doing with it.
 
Lady Penelope said:
Well done for finding that photo Lyn. I once read that nostalgia is 'a pleasant kind of ache' and the photo certainly gave me one of those. The input from everyone has been smashing! Don't worry Lyn, if you get arrested you can ring and we'll come to the rescue. I keep wondering what they can possibly be doing with it.
Click to expand...

Putting it back to it's 2007 look would be better then nothing
 
i agree pen..that old photo is smashing...its also having the old houses in shot as well that gives some of us that special kind of ache...i get it a lot when looking at how things where...also has to be said that we wont get a better brum history forum as this one for proper history research and of course helping others:)
 
Re the 1889 map in post #121. The circular area on the map must be the "dancing platform" as it has steps up to it from the pub courtyard.

In 1869, statues and a fountain were in place in the gardens - possibly the small round features.

The open area beneath the "A N D" of Sandy Lane must be the bowling green and quoits area. There was also a skittle alley (in 1857) but it may have gone by the time of this map. Although there is a narrow, oblong marked off area above the bowling green.

In 1863 there was an acre of gardens which was used for pigeon shooting in winter. Not sure if this would have been over the boundary wall on the far right of the map.

But soon after this map and before 1904, 7 houses were built along Park Street, the round dancing platform effectively falling within their back gardens ! The pleasure garden/dancing platform would therefore have gone, but perhaps the bowling green remained, as many pub bowling greens survived into the 20th century.

Building on Pedro's idea in post #123, I've pulled together all the descriptions of the Vine I could find from newspaper adverts into one place below.

Viv
 

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It might help us to uncover more if we knew where each of the interior rooms was located. For example, presumably the vaults were in the cellars. We know the malt room was above the stables. Also, my guess is the Assembly room and Club room were upstairs on the first floor. And it's quite likely the smoke room, tap room, bars and kitchens were on the ground floor. That would leave accommodation/bedrooms on the top floor.

So how would this help our interpretation of the overall building structure ?

I wondered if the Assembly Room was where the 'problem' windows are on the Sandy Lane side. Was the Assembly Room extended to provide a larger function room in the early 1900s ? If so, why ? Viv.
 
Just revisited Pedro's maps in post #102. Unfortunately the bowling green didn't survive. It was built upon by 1902 - by then, housing with back gardens/yards covered that area along Sandy Lane. Viv.
 
By the 1860s, the Vine would have had serious competition from other places of entertainment. Aston Lower Grounds (also referred to as Aston Cross grounds) were also advertising their pleasure gardens, Assembly Room, sporting events and dancing (although not licenced of course). Other local taverns, such as Aston Tavern, had pleasure grounds.

So similar entertainments were on offer in a relatively small area. It was obviously fashionable (and imitating the London scene). But I suspect the Vine offered a less respectable variation. (In fact venues like the London Vauxhall Gardens gained a questionable reputation too). I suppose anywhere where alcohol was on sale, reputations were at stake.

It's possible by the late 1800s the authorities would have preferred these places closed down. Maybe by 1900 the extension of the Vine building was a way of compensating for the loss of its outdoor facilities as the land behind the Vine (once the gardens) must have been sold off for housing development around 1900. Viv.
 
I have been in The Vine,probably around 1972,played darts in a league match.
The dartboard was in an upstairs room,and there was an upstairs bar at the other end of the landing.
I was playing for The Avenue on Aston Road North.
We won the game,and i won my match (scored a nice 140),what was interesting for me was,i played against,and met some old schoolmates from St Mary's C of E that i had not seen since junior school,even though i certainly got around that end,as i had friends i visited in Catherine Street.
 
thanks jo nice to have a bit of info about the inside of this pub...from one match player to another....nice score:)

lyn
 
Lyn, went along to the Vine today as we were going from Cuckoo Wharf to Catherine Street (Screwfix). Did you take the picture on #6 through the hole in the window? You must be a lot taller than me, I could only just see in by jumping up (not a pretty sight). Couldn't see anything to stand on handy. Nothing doing today. All quiet.
 
p050.gif
 
will try not to emldon boy lol...yes got that shot through the broken window on the sandy lane side my son took it..hes a tad taller than me:D
 
A-ha! That's your secret then Lyn. I used to have my trusty milk crate in the boot for when the dog needed to get up into the car as he got older. Very useful for a bit of added height for me but I gave it my son to stand his amp on. Must look round for another.
 
popped down again today...no sign of activity so i took a couple of photos of the side of the pub...can clearly see from the arched brickwork above that at least 3 windows have been bricked up
VINE..SWAN AND MITRE..BRITANNIA LICHFIELD ROAD 001.JPG VINE..SWAN AND MITRE..BRITANNIA LICHFIELD ROAD 002.JPG VINE..SWAN AND MITRE..BRITANNIA LICHFIELD ROAD 004.JPG
 
It is most interesting to see the 'newer' brickwork where the additions/alterations have been made at an earlier time. I presume the wooden escape stairs were originally from the doorway in the picture? The windows look very new; some attempt at antiquity seems to have been made but the door way looks out of character. As it could well be a future fire exit I suppose it has to be functional rather than aesthetic. I wonder when the new brickwork in the perimeter wall was built? Does anyone think it might be when the houses were built in the former garden? Or was it at a later time?
We are fortunate to be able to see the rear of the premises. Many similar places are usually obscured from view. ;)
 
Thanks for the photos Lyn. Given us a few more details to mull over ! There wasn't a boundary wall when the Vine had pleasure gardens. This must have been (or thereabouts) where the steps to the dancing platform were located. Later (by 1904) there were buildings (or some sort of structure) along that rear wall.

For reference, this is the sort of local competition the Vine was up against with its pleasure garden. https://birminghamhistory.co.uk/forum/index.php?threads/aston-lower-grounds.15945/#post-610844

Viv.
 
9F634712-319F-473A-9775-955695B54DB3.jpeg Development near the Vine....looks like back in 1856 Church Lane may have been known as Aston Lane?
 
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Vivienne14 said:
Re the 1889 map in post #121. The circular area on the map must be the "dancing platform" as it has steps up to it from the pub courtyard.

In 1869, statues and a fountain were in place in the gardens - possibly the small round features.

The open area beneath the "A N D" of Sandy Lane must be the bowling green and quoits area. There was also a skittle alley (in 1857) but it may have gone by the time of this map. Although there is a narrow, oblong marked off area above the bowling green.

In 1863 there was an acre of gardens which was used for pigeon shooting in winter. Not sure if this would have been over the boundary wall on the far right of the map.

But soon after this map and before 1904, 7 houses were built along Park Lane, the round dancing platform effectively falling within their back gardens ! The pleasure garden/dancing platform would therefore have gone, but perhaps the bowling green remained, as many pub bowling greens survived into the 20th century.

Building on Pedro's idea in post #123, I've pulled together all the descriptions of the Vine I could find from newspaper adverts into one place below.

Viv
Click to expand...

There is a further advert for the sale in 1857 that gives a further description...
 
I thought it must have had a brewery at one time, now it's confirmed by Pedro's first advert in #146. I also now think the stabling might have been on the Park Street side. Does that seem feasible ? This side of the building has always had outer buildings along the perimeter. If so, we know from a previous post that there was a malt room above the stables/carriage room. So was this the 'brewery' ?

You can also see on map #2 the arbours and alcoves around the dancing platform. These details are better viewed in Mike's map post #121.

I've come to the conclusion that the land that came with the Vine must have been sizeable to host all the listed attractions. In an earlier advert it claims one acre of land. Could we map that out ?

image.jpeg

Viv
 
Viv
At that tiem I think most pubs brewed their own ale, so having a "brewery" would not have been unexpected
 
viv my guess and a wild one was that the stables were within the pubs yard which was the usual place to have stables with the entrance on the sandy lane side as shows in mikes map on post 121...i believe that entrance is still there...cant recall now if one of the snippets posted said stables for 2 or 4 horses so they would not have taken up much room in the yard....all guess work of course but this sure was a significant pub....really enjoyed finding out some history about it:)

lyn
 
The provision of Victoria Road in 1852/3 from opposite the Vine to the newly laid Park Road, and thus extending the Lozells Road, would “form a direct communication from Birchfield and Handsworth to the Vine Inn, on the Lichfield Turnpike Road, to Erdington, Sutton, Nechells Green, Saltley, and Castle Bromwich.”

A bonus for the Vine.
 
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