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Midland Red Early Days

Radiorails, I've never heard of a chook being named after a bus before. But it works for me! :D

O 8209 was one of a batch of thirteen Tilling-Stevens TTA1 30 hp petrol-electric double deckers (registered O 8200-8212), new to Midland Red in May 1912 with Brush O18/16RO bodies. Under the "Birmingham Agreement" they all passed to the Corporation in October 1914. As Lloyd has explained, they were seriously underpowered as double deckers. Seven of them (O 8200-8206) were withdrawn in 1916, the other six being rebodied in that year as rear entrance single deckers. Five of the new bodies were also by Brush. These six remained in service until 1919.

O 8209 was special. Its chassis number (2) was the lowest of the batch (as far as is known). So it may well have been strictly the "oldest" BCT bus when acquired in 1914, as your friend suspected. The single deck body acquired in 1916 was by Dodson rather than Brush for some reason. And it had a life after withdrawal from service in 1919: it was re-seated to B14R in 1921 for the exclusive use of the Birmingham City Transport Committee.

I am aware of three pictures of these TTA1s:
[1] O 8206 in Midland Red service, with Elijah Simper at the wheel.
[2] O 8208 possibly with Midland Red chief engineer Loftus George Wyndham Shire on the upper deck.
[3] O 8211 in BCT livery with single deck body.​
[Does anyone know of a picture of "chook bus" O 8209? Since it lasted longer than the others, you would think that someone photographed it.]
 
Now here is a conundrum. Yes, the photographic evidence on the BME photo (as in the Midland Red Volume 1 book) clearly states W R Taylor.

However, physical written proof of the man who set up BMMO in 1904 was William John Taylor.

Are there two distinctly separate gentlemen I wonder? Brothers, cousins ?
 
Journey to India?
Midland Red meets Darjeeling Himalyan Railway
View attachment 66010

Actually no this is Roger Burdet's S15 (someone will correct me if I have got the model wrong) on a visit in 2009 to Adrian Shooter's private railway in Oxfordshire
 
Unfortunately in 2007 i had the unenvied privillage of being one of the few drivers who drove part of the last mercedes buses out of our bull ring depot before it was all transfered to kidderminster and the brum garage shut for ever,the death knell of midland red west (first group) in birmingham
 
I am attempting to research the MR Parcels Express service. Can any of of the learned bloggers on this thread point me in the direction of anything that might give some of the history of the parcels express until it folded mid-1970's?
 
I knew someone who salvaged from a skip the Midland Red annual accounts for, I think, 1929. Attached to them were handwritten accounts for the Parcels Dept from which, if I remember correctly, the largest items of expenditure were Wages and Fodder showing that the Midland Red were still using horses then. Unfortunately I shall not be able to contact him before end September but I believe he donated them to a Midland Red collection held somewhere in Worcestershire. Sorry I cannot help more at this point.
 
Hi, now there's an interesting thought/discussion !

I know I'm reaserching quite a lot of Midland Red stuff, but have not been drawn doqwn that tangent yet.

My own personal recollection is that of my cousin who used to be the newspaper delivery boy at Frisby on the Wreake in the 1960s. The 'Leicester Mercury' papers for the village used to be put on the 661 Grantham service every day, which left Leicester around 2.30pm and were dropped off in the bus shelter at 'Frisby Top' , about 3.15pm. I think this similarly happened at other village shelters along the way.

And presumably this happened throughout the Midlands.

I also recall being on a S15 one afternoon in Coalville and I think a royal mail bag was brought in and padlocked to the front seat. Can't remember where it was dropped off at, but presumably it was full of letters.

Does this start the ball rolling ?

Back to Midland Red early days, have you any information about the horse bus fleet Midland Red ran?
 
In the Late 70's early 80's we used to have a nottingham evening paper put on the X99 to be dropped off at the bus stop in Breedon on the Hill evey day.
 
BrianDicks said:
Back to Midland Red early days, have you any information about the horse bus fleet Midland Red ran?
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Interesting photo of Midland Red employees with their horses and dogs on https://blackcountryhistory.org/collections/getrecord/GB146_PHS_216/
It says it is of the Bearwood Road Garage at its closure in 1912 but I think it must be at the closure of the Tennant Street garage. Unless of course they mean the end of horse bus operation out of the Bearwood Garage.
 
It is the Bearwood depot, the original horse buses were replaced from 1912 by Tilling Stevens motor buses which were garaged at Tennant Street, which was acquired in April 1912. This premises passed to Birmingham Corporation under the 1914 agreement, along with some staff and vehicles and all of the services which ran totally inside the city boundary. The Bearwood premises were then extended and converted for motor bus operation, and the final use of horses for hire carriages etc ceased.

Here is another view of the Bearwood horse keepers and the dogs, almost certainly taken on the same day - several faces are recogniseable (i.e. the lad in cap holding dog on the left in both pictures, the chap kneeling by the black dog in your picture is far right in this one) and a view of the horse buses stored in the depot where the horses are shewn above - the stables were actually in an adjacent building.

View attachment 69234View attachment 69235
 
DavidGrain said:
Journey to India?
Midland Red meets Darjeeling Himalyan Railway
View attachment 66010

Actually no this is Roger Burdet's S15 (someone will correct me if I have got the model wrong) on a visit in 2009 to Adrian Shooter's private railway in Oxfordshire
Click to expand...

Not an S15 David, but from the seating, looks more likely to be an S22 semi coach (which was produced too late to wear that black top livery whilst in service with the Midland Red). Fleet number would be useful to verify.
 
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motorman-mike said:
Not an S15 David, but from the seating, looks more likely to be an S22 semi coach (which was produced too late to wear that black top livery whilst in service with the Midland Red).
Click to expand...

I knew the black top was not correct. I was just guessing on the model. Thanks.
I was there again two weeks ago and saw Roger Burdet with another party this time in a West Riding Leyland halfcab.
 
If fodder was an item in 1929; does that mean that the horses were allowed to live out their lives rather than being shipped to France for human fodder. A nice notion.
 
No I interpreted this as meaning that the Parcels Dept was still using horses. As I understand it the Midland Red had a very extensive parcels operation and were making local deliveries not just by bus but in their own fleet of vans.
 
I worked at Midland Reds Carlyle works from leaving school in 1959 until 1985 I graduated from an apprentice thro the ranks to forman of the dock in the chassis shop my mentor in the dock area was Charlie Turner the works superintendant was Don Sheppard and his assistent was Howard Wasley I remember the first C5s upto the CM6s what great vehicles they were,I was also in charge of the Digbeth fitters when they were moved into Carlyle Works I wonder if any off the old fitters from Carlyle would remember these days,if so I would like to get in touch.What a pity the works was closed it was the best company I ever worked for and I enjoyed every day of my working life there and the guys I worked with were a great bunch too
 
i was assistant foreman at Sutton garage my mate Wynne Jordan worked at Carlyle works for many years he now lives in north Wales Allen Gibson
 
I knew Wynne well he worked firstly in the production shop at Carlyle works. When the production shop was shut Wynne moved into the new dock at Carlyle works under Fmn Stan Rogers.I was the forman of the old dock area and when Stan retired I inherited the new dock as well,Wynne was my chargehand in the new dock along with Ron Eurell, when Carlyle was closed Wynne went to work at The Birmingham Coach Company,I had left CarlyLe works and worked at the BCC I was already at BCC and was a forman there so we worked together again.
I also knew Roger Harman he was a person I held in great respect, a more down to earth and knowledgeable man I ever knew I also knew Dave Camelio I think his Father was superintendant of Sutton Garage I have many happy memories of my years at Carlyle and the men I worked with they were all a great bunch of guys I often think about them and wonder how they are getting on.I am retired now but would like to meet some of the guys again
Thank you for emailing me and bringing back some happy memories

Paul Whalley
 
Re: Birmingham Motor Express Co Ltd 1903-1908.

Hi, me again, I've still got this problem with our elusive Mr W R Taylor.

I have gone to the trouble of getting official documents printed from the archives at Kew. There is no Mr W R Taylor, even though there is a photograph depicting his name on the side of a vehicle.

The originating director is William J Taylor. Here the mystery remains. Some documentation he is listed as William John Taylor, elsewhere he is William James Taylor.

Even between the 1897/1900/1905 editions of Kellys, he is known as both. So unable to prove along that avenue.

Cheers
Brian
 
On Sunday (11th March) I went down to London for the open day at the London Transport Museum's depot in Acton where they keep the reserve stock. I attended a lecture by Roger Torode who has written a book "Midland Red Style" in partnership with Malcolm Keeley. Very interesting talk on the history of the Midland Red. Have not read the book yet but it appears to have a brief history and short biographies of important people in the history of the company. Many photos of vehicles with what look like good captions and a vast collection of promotional matterial.

Roger started as a conductor at Kidderminster before transfering to London Transport and eventually holding a senior position with Transport for London. Whilst I was aware that 10 D9s worked in London on the sightseeing tours. I was not aware that a coach compnay in London also had D9s which they painted blue and used on works services for Lesney, the toy company.
 
Have fond memories of the old Midland. Used to catch the Ludlow service out of Station St garage quite regularly to go and visit a great aunt in Far Forest (think that is somewhere between Bewdley and Ludlow). I know it took ages to get there.
 
Stitcher said:
View attachment 74483View attachment 74482
I know nothing about these two photo's.
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Great photos Trevor. A pair of BMMO S14 type Midland Red single deckers. (The ones with single back wheels - not nice on wet and icy roads).

4573 on the X73 Birmingham - Cheltenham service has just arrived at the Royal Well Bus Station in Cheltenham. Digbeth Garage used to work this route. (Tea and sarnies in Doris's Cafe in Cheltenham Bus Station).

4701 on the 409 Hereford - Birmingham via Tenbury Wells service is more of a mystery. This service ran one round journey from Hereford on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays only. It came in to Birmingham via Bearwood and the Hagley road but is seen here in Bromsgrove Street. My guess is that because it hung up from 11-57am until 6-25pm in Birmingham it was on it's way to Digbeth Garage or Adderley Street Yard for parking. This bus left Hereford at 8-15am and got back at 9-58pm, a long day for the crew but a lovely scenic run. (This was in the 1960's, Driver's hours regulations wouldn't allow it today!)
 
Hello Mike, I do seem to recall doing the Cheltenham route once I think but I never did the Hereford run.
 
motorman-mike said:
4701 on the 409 Hereford - Birmingham via Tenbury Wells service is more of a mystery. This service ran one round journey from Hereford on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays only. It came in to Birmingham via Bearwood and the Hagley road
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike for this information. I thought I knew the Midland Red routes into Birmingham especially those along the Hagley Road which was my home area but 409 was completely unknown to me.
 
Time for a cuppa............
Image409.jpg
 
The "Midland Red Style" is a great book, got it on my last trip over from Ian Allan in Ethel St.

Mention of Tenbury Wells above reminds me of my Great Grandfather who was from there. Yet another place I have to visit some time. Is there a bus service there from Brum these days?
 
img607.jpg
I have posted this on here because it refer to BMMO and it seems more at home here than it would on the Ctiy Cenre Pics thread.
An omnibus of the Birminhgam Motor Express Company going past the General Post Office in 1904.
The B.M.E. Company was formed in 1903 and in December that year thecompany ordered 6 Milnes - Daimler double deckers, one of which (0264)is shown here. In
April 1904 a twenty minute service between the Grammer School in New Street and The Bear Hotel in Bearwood was introduced. Due to the succes of this route a service to Harborne was begun in September of the same year. At a later date??? the B.M.E. Company was absorbed into the Midland Red Company.
April
 
Morning stitcher,this picture shows the same bus service as the one shown in yours,it is going in the opposite direction,taken in Sandon Road in 1912.Moss
 

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Thanks, another super photo.

Now, the prvious photo showed O 264, which was new in 1904 and is a Milnes Daimler vehicle.

The photo above shows O 8210, which was new to the BMMO (Midland Red) company in 1912 and is of a Tilling Stevens TTA1 type.
Please, everyone, keep these photos coming.

Thanks again, Brian
 
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