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Owens Farm Sparkbrook

Phil

Phil

Gone, but not forgotten.
Can anyone tell me anything about the farmhouse on this postcard, and its claim to be perhaps the oldest house in Birmingham. This is a piece of Sparkbrook history that I have never heard before. Surely there are many houses in Birmingham that make this claim. I lived in Sparkbrook for a good few years and I always believed the oldest house in that area to be Lloyd House in FarmPark. Was that then a replacement of this? Any help would be appreciated.

Phil

Sparkbrook Oldest Farmhouse.jpg
 
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Alf

Thanks for your interest, I had checked out Google prior to making my enquiry here. I always try all available (that I know of) avenue's of enquiry before bothering the membership here. Thanks again mate.

Phil
 
frederick said:
Phil,
where in Sparkbrook was that house.
Click to expand...

Fred

Thats just it, I don't know. This is the first reference I have ever seen of it and that is only a photo on a copy of a postcard.

I thought it possible that Lloyd house might have replaced it.

Phil
 
hi phil. dont surpose you have a date for it do you. it dosnt look as though it was taken that many years ago. wales
 
Wales,

I have nothing more than a copy of the postcard of which you see and what is written on it. I came across it and it aroused my interest because I had never seen this house or any reference to it before.

Phil
 
hi phil. it is an interesting one. i will do some research as i know you have already done. if i turn anything up will let you know. wales
 
The only suggestion I can offer is Farm Park, it is enclosed by four roads
Dolobran Road, Deerman Road, Kendall Road and Sampson Road.

I do remember an old house in that area, not sure if it is there now though.

Dibs
 
dib44 said:
The only suggestion I can offer is Farm Park, it is enclosed by four roads
Dolobran Road, Deerman Road, Kendall Road and Sampson Road.

I do remember an old house in that area, not sure if it is there now though.

Dibs
Click to expand...

Hi Dibs

The place you are talking about is Farm Park, and the house is Lloyd Farm House. The Lloyds were the originators of Lloyds Bank who opened their first bank in Birmingham. The house is still there today and is now occupied by a housing association or something like that.

I had always thought of this house as the oldest in the area, and I did wonder if the house in the postcard had been replaced by Lloyd house. I have been looking for two days now am unable to find any mention of this old farmhouse.

I suppose I will have to make a call to the library.

Phil
 
hi phil. youve definately started something now. so far i cant find any info. will keep trying. meanwhile heres a pic of the lloyds farm you mention. wales.
 
I think I've found the identity of the house. In the book "The Lloyds of Birmingham, with some account of the founding of Lloyds bank (1907)" , which is downloadable from:
https://www.archive.org/details/lloydsofbirmingh00lloyuoft, the authors note that the original farm building in the grounds is probably the oldest building in Birmingham (see attached). they also give a picture, which I have cut down an intensified.



owens_farm_ref.jpg


original_lloyds_farm_AA.jpg
 
Mikejee

Well done I had given up hope of finding an answer, but I was pretty sure of a Lloyd connection, So it looks like the house was once in the grounds of Lloyd Farm even after Lloyd House was built. I suppose it could have been quite a way from the Park in fact anywhere on the 56 acres.

I suppose when Birmingham Council decided to build up Sparkbrook they just arbitrarily decided to be rid of it in their usual fashion. Old and ancient equals disposable.

Phil
 
you see phil. everything comes to he who waits. im still waiting for the vine.lol lyn:)
 
Am still trying to work out where Owens farm was exactly. I always like to com plete things as much as possible. In the 1876, 1896 and 1912 it is listed as one property with a farmer listed at "the farm" in addition to the owner. The map on the British history site is not clear. The Birmingham archives apparently have a plan of the estate when it was bought in 1810 in the Smith /Ryland estate papers (MS 39/52). they're not sure what condition its in and are going to find out and let me know. When I manage to get to brum I'll drop in and look at it if they let me
Mike
 
I think I have cracked this, Whilst going through my photo collection today I came across this photo taken in Farm park in 1932.

Now that I have seen this, I seem to remember it and I think it was still standing in the 50's and I think the water fountain was somewhere nearby.

Phil

Sparkbrook Farm Park 1932.jpg
 
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That's great Phil. I am hopin to get to Brum next week and see that map at the library, but I think you've got it. When I previously looked at the 1890 map (below) I thought it didn't have a farmhouse (not standing anyway), but i suppose the thing I thought was outbuildings (coloured) must be it. It shows up better in the smaller scale 1915 map as its simpler with less clutter
mike



2__map_farm_park_1915.jpg


map_farpark_1890.jpg
 
Sorry, when I coloured the first map i didn't save correctly and couldn't alter post, but it shows on second one
mike
 
I played in Farm Park and the house there looked old [style off] unlike the house in the picture which looks modern. Maybe its on an old - site and retains some features of a former farmhouse ??]
 
Hi Irishbrummie,

I haven't been in Farm park since I last had to do my courting outdoors and that quite a while ago. I think the house in the photo is no longer there, but you might know better than me. The photo that I posted was taken in 1932 and the farmhouse was old then.

Phil
 
Phil,

My grandfather was park keeper in Farm Park from 1927 until 1953 and lived in Lloyd House where my father was brought up. My father is 93 now but next time I visit I'll ask him whether he recalls anything about this picture taken in 1932.

Alan
 
I should add that I did visit the library to see the map I mentioned in post 19, but it didn't show the farm, in fact it didn't give many information at all, being just a handdrawn map showing some boundaries, but not showing any buildings

Mike
 
Hi Phil,

My grandfather was Park Keeper at Farm Park from 1927 until he retired in 1953. The family lived in Lloyd House - a grand house for a park-keeper!

My father was about 12 when they moved there and he is still alive today, aged 96. By the time the family moved there in 1927, the fish pond alongside the carriage drive had already been filled and the boat house demolished. As well as Lloyd House, there were two other buildings still standing in the Park. I don't know whether either of these houses was the 'original' farm or whether that had already been demolished.

My father describes one as a building with stables and a separate coach house. The coachman to the Lloyd family (Jack Oldnall?) had the right to continue living there after the park was given to the Corporation. Part of this house was used as a mess room for the Park staff. This house had a walled garden, where my grandfather used to grow his vegetables.

The other building was lived in by a servant to the Lloyd family, Mrs Bates and her son, who was also given the right to continue living there. My father says this cottage is the one in your picture taken in 1932. This building looks like the picture of the house illustrated (and referred to) as possibly the oldest building in Birmingham in the 1906 book 'The Lloyds of Birmingham' and which was then known as Owen's Farm.

By the way, we think it might be my grandfather in the 1932 picture!

These two buildings were demolished after my grandfather retired and are now marked in the Park with a finger post and an outline of the footings.

Alan
 
Hi Alan

A very interesting read its little things like this that never get recorded, well at least not where the average person like you and me will ever get to read it. Well at least its recorded here now.

Phil
 
This debate regarding the "Oldest House in Brum" has always confused me and I guess it always will. The claim that the oldest house is the Lad in the Lane, which was a house originally has been well supported but was it in Brum when it was built or was it in the parish of Aston which from my understanding was not Birmingham at the time?
If the criteria of what was in brum when it was built is used, then the "Lad" can not lay claim to the oldest but if the criteria of what's in brum now is used, a new ball game is started.
I live in Coleshill and I will always state that Coleshill is not in Birmingham, it's North Warwickshire! However, try telling the post office or insurance companies that it's not Birmingham and you will get one hell of an argument. Therefore, perhaps we should lay claim to the oldest house. There is a house near the bottom of Lower High Street dated 1302 which i guess would win hands down.
Now I don't for a minute think anyone would agree but it proves a point, doesn't it? Let's stick to "What was in Brum when it was built" ...... So what is the oldest house in Birmingham?
 
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