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Robert Mitchell Burial

L

Lee Harris

proper brummie kid
Hello to all,

My first post here . . . I have visited the UK several times, and my old Dad was born in Birmingham then emigrated to Australia when he was a young lad. I cannot get enough of the history of Birmingham - what a wonderful place!

My ancestors are the Harris and Mitchell gold- and silversmiths of Birmingham. A few of us have been trying to find the origin of Robert c1781, Silversmith, living at 22 Regent's Place, Hockley at time of his death. He died 12th May 1838 aged 57 years.

I had a Researcher find his burial details, and the reply was a little cryptic:

Robert Mitchell buried 15th May 1838. Regents Place, age 57 years. Birmingham St Paul.

I must assume that he was not actually interred in some Churchyard or small plot of land actually in Regent's Place - I think this is unlikely, but has anyone any ideas about that possibility?

Can anyone help me to find his grave? Since he died at 22 Regent's Place which is very close to Key Hill, it would seem he is likely to be buried there. I think he was Non-Conformist, or perhaps C of E. It seems Key Hill was opened from 1835 so I guess he could have been interred there . . .Is Warstone also a possibility?

Also, no-one can find his wife's death nor any appearances of her in 1841 or 1851 Censuses. Her name was Elizabeth unknown (possibly Gostelow) c1781. Naturally we would assume that she was buried with Robert.

Would appreciate and help that you can provide. Thanks in anticipation!

Lee
 
Could this be their marriage? If so Elizabeth may have moved back to London after Robert's death.
ELISABETH GOSTELOW
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Marriages:
Spouse: ROBERT MITCHELL
19 AUG 1802
Saint Leonards, Shoreditch, London, England
 
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If you go to the St Pauls website and click on "Map Link" you will see how close St Pauls Church is to Regent Place.
Some 300 yards.
Williamjukes.
 
Hi Lee,

There is no Robert Mitchell listed in Key Hill on the BMSGH website. Warstone lane (C of E) did not open until 1848.

I would agree with the others that he is buried in the Churchyard of St Pauls.

I think your researcher has given you name, date of burial, address at time of death, age at time of death, Place of burial.
 
Hi Pomgolian, Yes - have searched extensively to see if this Elizabeth had perhaps moved in with either Gostelow or Mitchell families after Robert's death, but no luck at all finding anyone that fits, in London or elsewhere. We are fairly certain that he married Eliz Gostelow but not 100%.
Thanks, Lee
 
Thanks Pomgolian, William and Key Hill Brian.

I guess next step is to contact St Pauls to enquire about burials there in the Churchyard.

Looking at the St Pauls Church website there is no mention of 'family history' links, so do you think there will be records of burials available online?

It was a BMSGH researcher I hired to get the data that I have, and the information supplied was apparently all that he could supply. I had asked for actual Plot / Section etc data and was told it was not available (from his area?) so any ideas on who to contact would be very helpful thanks!

BTW, a good luck story for you . . . . when looking for another Mitchell ancestor a while ago, I found a relative (in Birm) who had kept the actual Cemetery and Funeral Company accounts. These had the Plot number etc and even details of the cost for hiring 'two horses and carriage' etc! That was for a 1927 funeral. I was thrilled to have these original documents made available.

Regards, Lee
 
Lee

Birmingham Central Library hold a vast amount of information re Church Records (although I am unsure re burial records).

If St Pauls Church cannot help you directly then it may be worthwhile contacting the Archives department at the library to check if they hold any records for St Pauls Church.

archives@birmingham.gov.uk

Williamjukes
 
Thanks William, I'll email both the Church and archives as suggested. From what I understand (- but not entirely sure) most Churches have handed their records over to local government departments (libraries?) to be scanned / fiched. The trouble I have is typically not knowing which library would have the records for a particular Church! However in this case it is easier to figure out.
Will post when I find anything.
Regards, Lee
 
I was in Water Street this afternoon and had intended having a look round the churchyard - but it was pouring with rain, so I abandonned the idea.

If the weather is better tomorrow lunchtime, I'll look on my way home from work.
 
I would really appreciate that!
We will be in the UK visiting family late this year and I'm going to be doing a lot of walking around the ancestor's areas, should be great!
Lee
 
I have been to St Paul's this afternoon and had a walk round the landscaped churchyard. There are groups of gravestones and a few large memorials. Many were the right sort of time period, but sadly none are to Robert Mitchell. The churchyard is beautifully kept and full of crocus at the moment.

However, I went inside the church, which is beautiful. It still has all the big Georgian pews with doors and numbers. There are a lot of memorials inside the church - but again none for Robert Mitchell.
I met a man called Dennis who works as a guide at the church and is very knowledgable. I explained that I was looking for information for someone who lives abroad and I have arranged to return tomorrow when he will be able to access the burials book from the safe. It has all the details that you might require, including where the burial plot was - even though it is almost centainly landscaped over (the graves were left intact)now appears to be landscaped over. He says that when you come later in the year, if you visit the church between 10 and 4 (Tuesday - Sat), he is normally there to give you a tour.

If there is anything particular that you want me to ask him tomorrow, can you let me know before midday (GMT). Otherwise, if you want me to, I'll just see what information he has for you. Hopefully, he'll let me photograph the register.

In the meantime, here is a picture of the church.....
 
leslam, it sounds as if you have had another interesting afternoon in a cemetery while trying to help someone on the forum. I love the photo of the church - you always take good photos. I hope you find the details tomorrow - that would be great - good luck!
Polly :)
 
Leslam what a kind person you are doing this for a member. Mind you I know you will have enjoyed it! St Paul's is a beautiful church I have been a few times. I even went to one of Carl's talks there. I am going on Saturday to The Friends of Key Hill and Warstone Lane Cemeteries A.G.M. after the meet at The Black Eagle.:)
 
Hi leslam,

Glad you enjoyed yourself. St Pauls is a beautiful little church and retains that 'old' feeling with its pews. Not comfortable when they have their wonderful carol concert in December, but certainly takes you back, though.!
If anyone is in the area, a visit inside is an absolute 'must'
 
Thank you very much leslam, and for the photo too. Really appreciated! I will keep Dennis's name handy and call in to see him when we get there.

Hope this reaches you by midday.

Robert's details restated for convenience are:
DOD 12May 1838 and buried 15 May 1838, aged 57. DOB and place of birth unknown but c1781. It is possible he was a Londoner, or maybe even Scottish. Married at Shoreditch, London 1802 to an Elizabeth unknown. We don't know parents names.

As well as Robert's burial details and Plot number etc, it would be very helpful to have his wife's details if she has been interred with him - or even separately. Her name Elizabeth unknown (Maiden Name possibly Gostelow), DOB c1781- 178?, born possibly London (Shoreditch / Tower Hamlets area but another theory is Scotland!) and DOD not known. Because we cannot find any 1841 onwards Census record of widow Elizabeth then it would seem likely that she died either before Robert or a couple of years after him (but this is guesswork based on nil Census or Death records being found).

As far as we know, Elizabeth resided with him at 22 Regent's Place, so it would seem likely that her death and burial would be recorded at St Pauls.

We have had no luck despite years of searching for him and his wife. So info on either will be very helpful.

I don't know if the Church will have records of the monumental inscriptions, but if not too much trouble then the wording would probably be the most helpful thing we could have.

As an aside, I mention that Robert was a renowned jeweller, he was associated with the creation of the Birmingham Hallmark in the early 1800's, accompanying the delegation of Silversmiths to London in order to request the granting of the Birmingham Hallmark / registry. His name can be found in literature of that time, in connection with another famous Brummegen jeweller, Thomas Pemberton.

[FONT=&quot]An extract from a document I have reads:
Further marks in partnership with Thomas Pemberton (1775-1830) - 'Samuel Pemberton, son & Mitchell'. 1837 (21 July): [/FONT][FONT=&quot]London[/FONT][FONT=&quot] mark entered by Thomas Pemberton
and Robert Mitchell as smallworkers, by power of attorney signed by
Pemberton for both. Address: Snow Hill, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Birmingham[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

Hope that you have a good day, and fine weather for your sojourn. Good luck!

Lee

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Lee. Have you tried the Assay Office for any historical information on your ancester?
The Birmingham Assay Office, P.O. Box 151, Newhall Street, Birmingham B3 1SB
Email: history@theassayoffice.co.uk
They have a very good archivist.
 
As a slight link there is a Charles Reece Pemberton in Key Hill cemetery he died in 1840. It states he was from the old Birmingham family of Pembertons. He was a traveller, Author, Actor and lectured in Shakespear. He became very popular in his time. I am not sure if he was from the same family he is buried in section O grave number 380.
 
Well, mixed success today! Met with Jacqui and Dennis. They have the book of monumental inscriptions (not the grave register). There is another copy of the monumental inscriptions in the library. The Mitchells in there were not the ones Lee is looking for, but that doesn't mean to say that there wasn't originally a gravestone. This is because there appears to have been wholesale reorganisation of the graveyard in 1890s. The record that is there now was completed in 1978, when the current landscaping was undertaken. Am attaching the information on this and the plan that was at the front of the MIs book.

[I did however manage to photograph some Elkington plaques and MIs, so will add those to the relevant thread]

I have to say that both Jacqui and Dennis were very helpful. I have encouraged Jacqui to join the forum as she is very interested in local history (she will be at the church, serving teas on Sat for the Friends of Key Hill meeting, so Wendy, do your stuff!!)
I asked about the Pembertons as well and Jacqui said that they were heavily involved in St Paul's - so that it presumably where Robert met Thomas



However, undeterred, I went to the Library to follow up on the Mitchells (a lovely stroll in the summer sunshine). And I had considerably more success:
  1. Decided to have a look at Aris obituary transcriptions, as in the past they have provided a nugget of information that has lead to better things [A – Z listing, about 12 brown books in the shelves that are immediately behind you when you are looking in the microfilm drawers for the churches]. Yet again they came up trumps:

    Mitchell, Robert, died at his daughter’s, Regent Place aged 57 d 12 May 1838 (appeared in issue of 14.5.1838) AND

    Mitchell, Mrs Robert, died at her daughter’s Upper Hockley Street, aged 59 d Dec 1840 (appeared in issue 21.12.1840)

  2. Onwards to the burial register! And yes, Mrs Robert is Elizabeth Mitchell. She was buried on Dec 28th. Interestingly, her age is given there as 60, so maybe her b’day was between the time she died and was buried and they didn’t know what age to give her! I have the printouts from the register, so I’ll email to Lee separately.

    I think that I can safely say that the GRO reference for Elizabath's death is Q4 1840, Birmingham 16, 161 if you want to order the certificate (Robert’s is Q2 1838, Birmingham 16 170). Alternatively, you can order from Bham reg office (you don't ned the ref then, just year and approx date).
Enough detective work for one day!
 
Hi Leslam, absolutely brilliant work with supern results!

Will see Jaqui on Sat and and make sure her and Wendy get together!
 
It was fun - a bit of light relief and fresh air. If only I had the same success knocking down my own 'brickwalls' :)
 
Thanks leslam, this is wonderful news! I have sprung out of bed and made a bee-line for the computer first thing. This looks like the breakthrough we have been waiting for!

I am about to order the certificate, having checked the GRO ref which looks fine. It has been a real impasse until now, with so many like-named Elizabeth deaths in Birmingham. Now we will hopefully move forward.

Interesting that you also uncovered some history about St Pauls. It is nice to know that the changes made in 1890 and 1978 were done carefully and documented well, but what a shame so many headstones were illegible and just laid down to be covered with grass.

I have Robert’s death cert and he died of consumption, it will be interesting to see what befell Elizabeth, and also to find out if you guessed correctly regarding her birthday being late December! Will let you know in a few weeks when cert arrives . . .


I live in Bathurst NSW which is about 3 hours’ drive west of Sydney, so if you ever need research done for the ‘colonies’ let me know.

Heartfelt thanks for going out of your way to do so much for me, and so quickly.
Best wishes, Lee
 
mike-g said:
Lee. Have you tried the Assay Office for any historical information on your ancester?
The Birmingham Assay Office, P.O. Box 151, Newhall Street, Birmingham B3 1SB
Email: history@theassayoffice.co.uk
They have a very good archivist.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike for this suggestion, I think some information has been received from the Assay Office already, I will check with others. We have quite a lot of info on Robert's associations with the jewelry trade, he did some nice silver-smith work which is still around, in private collections I believe.
 
Lee the assay office have a collection of silver they put some on display last year in the Pen Museum. It may be worth asking if they have any of Roberts work. At least you could have a photo then.
 
Dear All,

I was so pleased to find this site by chance yesterday as I too had hit a brick wall with this Robert Mitchell, my gr gr gr grandfather. Now I have lots of leads so thank you. Will have a go at finding out about Elizabeth too as I now know her surname. There was a Francis Gostellow running a coffee house in Shoreditch in the 1830s. Was in B'ham last year trying to find out and went to the Jewellery Quarter. Will have to come back I can see. Regards, Diana
 
Wendy said:
Lee the assay office have a collection of silver they put some on display last year in the Pen Museum. It may be worth asking if they have any of Roberts work. At least you could have a photo then.
Click to expand...

Wendy, thanks for this idea. I was not aware they have an exhibition, so will contact them about it
 
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