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Collins Florence

K

kath565

proper brummie kid
hi i am trying to find out about a florence collins living at 571 moseley road. it would appear that it is ywca on 1911 census. i know that in 1923 my uncle stephen ensor used this address on a shipping list as his last address before going to america. would he have been able to be a client of ywca ? another twist is that stephen nephew benjamin ainsworth married a celia phillips in 1917 who grandmother was a mary collins. the ensor/ ainsworth name change is confirmed by certificates . confused how do think i feel!!!!
 
You haven't given much to go on. Some dates might help.

I think I've found the right Florence Collins, born in 1869, Balsall Heath the daughter of Henry and Sarah. In 1901 she's living in Brunswick Road, Balsall Heath with her parents. Her occupation is paper box maker, which ties in with 1911.
 
yes think all above to correct. im trying to find out if stephen 1869 is related to florence collins. on a shipping list for 1923 stephen ensor lists 571 moseley road as his last abode . i looked for 1911 census and found florence there and it was a ywca building. to cut a long story very short stephen may have been related to florence as stephen brother walter 1864 had a son benjamin 1893 who married a celia grace phillips 1895 in 1917 who grandmother was mary collins 1837. mary collins was married to a thomas wall 1842 although we can not find their marriage. all this happened around aston and digbeth
thanks
 
thank you for this info..i can not find the marriage of thomas and mary anywhere but saw st phillips church again so will have another look. i am wondering if you could help me with finding stephen other brothers and sisters, the confusing thing is that until we looked in depth at tree our family name is ainsworth. this is a tragic story
stephen dad 1836 married a emma spilsbury in 1859 but the wedding certificate says that he was a ensor. they had several children some born as ensor some ainsworth. the children were walter 1864, stephen 1869 minnie 1877, mary, eliza 1875, charles and albert 1879 . they are n a census back of constitutional hill as ainsworths in 1881 with their mom as stephen had passed away in late 1878 not seeing albert born, then emma died at end of 1881. i know where walter stephen and charles went and found out recently that after being at marston green cottages albert became a merchant seaman but the others nothing please help.
 
Don't forget that Thomas and Mary may not have "married" - people sometimes said they were married to save face when they could not afford to marry properly.
By 1923 I don't think 571 Moseley Road was a YWCA - it is not listed in the 1923 phone book - other YWCA's in Birmingham are.

Janice
 
Sorry, couldn't find anything concrete. A couple of marriages for Mary Ann Ensors and some immigration records for Albert Ainsworths but can't tell if they're yours.

Could the younger children have been adopted perhaps?
 
thanks for looking. ive just found a passenger list for 1923 and it states that minnie dryhurst sister great barr is stephen next of kin in england . albert was in merchant navy and if you go on find my past you will see his records. eliza and mary are the ones to baffle us now. we have no idea why the change of surname either
 
I wonder if the original Stephen Ainsworth/Ensor had a stepfather. He might have used his surname all his life but had to put his "real" name on a marriage certificate. That is still true today.
Janice
 
Are the sound of Ainsworth/Ensor close enough to be confused by someone hearing them?

In a time where few could write let alone spell variations can be surprising, so I wouldn't be surprised if their was no actual name change, just different people writing down what they thought they'd heard.
 
thank you for this. just wonderibg now who is actually living in 571 moseley street in 1923 and how i can find out
 
The electoral rolls are available at the Library of Birmingham, if they were eligible to vote they should be listed.
 
I have had a look on ancestry and cannot find the address for 571 for 1923. I don t know why. I can find 1912 (Cleeton) and 1950. I will have another look tomorrow.
 
I don't think the 1923 rolls are on Ancestry. If the address is missing in other years I assume that no voters were registered there. To actually look for 1923 you would need to be at the library as MWS says.
In 1922 it is listed as Cleeton but business premises and gives another address for his residence.
In 1921 Kelly's trade directory. 571 Moseley Road is listed to Albert Cleeton as a Ham and Beef Shop!

Janice
 
thank you all for looking. ive looked at the 1922 and can see no mention of a collins or ensor. ive email the library see what comes of it .
thanks so much
 
I've noticed the Absent Voters list mentioned on here before. I understand that details of servicemen that were away during WW1 can be found there, how do I access it ? I have Ancestry but must be looking in the wrong place.
 
If you go to the Midlands Electoral Registers, on the right hand side there's a drop down menu, click it and the top option is Absent Voters List.
 
kath565 said:
thank you all for looking. ive looked at the 1922 and can see no mention of a collins or ensor. ive email the library see what comes of it .
thanks so much
Click to expand...
I don't think Florence would have been eligible to vote in 1922 unless she was a home owner or married or paid more than a certain rent per year. Women only all got the vote in 1928. This might explain why you can't find her.

Janice
 
hi a update i looked up minnie drygurst today and yes i found her and hugh on midland electrol rll . hooray i hear you cry !!!! but i found two!!!!! there is a minnie and james along with a susannah spilsbury and william ensor ( perhaps stephen and a relative of stephen/ minnie mom) they are in handsworth in 1924. but in 1927 there are duplicates minie dryhurst and minnie louise alberta dryhurst so confused again
 
There is Hugh James Dryhurst b1889 and another b1899, both Bham. (and one 1894 but he dies 1895)

There are 3 marriages 1913 to Minnie Ensor, 1920 to Rose E Bayliss & 1927 to Minnie L A Staples (nee Downes)

The Hugh b in 1899 dies in 1966, can't see a death for the 1889 Hugh.

Rose E Dryhurst (nee Bayliss) dies 1923 so it seems that the Hugh who married Rose then married the widow Minnie Staples.

There is one Dryhurst/Ensor child - William P b1915. He dies in 1977 Salisbury and marries Nellie Topp in 1939 Lambeth.

There is death in Lambeth 1947 for Minnie Dryhurst, dob is slightly out 1882.
 
Kath565 I have had a look and there is a Minnie E Drysdale B1880 living 1881Clifton Road Balsall Heath. 1891 Hertford Street Balsall Heath. 1901 Anderton Road Bordesley. 1911 Springfield Road Wolverhampton. She has a brother called Thomas who had 1 son and 2 daughters. One daughter named Minnie E B1890 and Lilian (not Louisa) Alberta B1899. Is this any good?
 
There was a Fred Dryhurst living in peel street winson green in the 1970 and prior to that t Holly head road handsworth border of west brom
Her name was Jackie Groccottt Astonian
 
Ok some more...

Susannah Spilsbury was the wife/widow of William Spilsbury b1851 the brother of Emma Spilsbury.

William and Emma's widowed mother married a Joseph Ainsworth in 1869.

Also it looks like William and Susannah may have adopted (unofficially) Minnie. In 1881 there is a Minnie Spilsbury b1877 living with them, listed as niece (even though she's listed with her mother as well). In 1891 and 1901 she listed as Minnie Spilsbury daughter. There's no birth registered for Minnie Spilsbury around 1877.

If William and Susannah did 'adopt' Minnie then it may be why she name her son William.
 
wow you guys are amazing. think especially mws has found the missing link. you do not know what this eans to the family thank you
 
wow you guys are amazing. think especially mws has found the missing link. you do not know what this means to the family thank you
 
just going back to joseph and ann . yes this is right but another twist is that joseph ainsworth was in fact stephen ainsworth/ hainsworth brother 1789. so in fact stephen 1836 father of minnie/ stephen/ walter /eliza/ mary / charles / albert uncle . just need to find out what happened to eliza and mary now . thank you again
 
If Minnie was 'adopted' by relatives it's possible that the others were as well and appear in the censuses with different names. Unfortunately the only way to find out would be to trace as many relatives as you can looking for children that match.
 
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