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Smith George

S

smithsquared

Brummie Once Removed
Hi everyone, this is my first try at this sort of thing so please bear with me.
I have been trying to research my fathers family, his name was George Joseph Smith and he was born 19th March 1912 at '1 Back, 96 Henley Street, Aston'. His parents were James Joseph Smith born around 1872 in Birmingham and Lucy Smith (nee Smith) also born in Birmingham around 1873. I don't know how many siblings there were but, I think it was three brothers and two sisters. Any info would be wonderful, I have been struggling. Does anyone know where 1 back 96 Henley Street was since that end of the road seems to have been redeveloped.
Fingers crossed
Smithsquared
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

1911 1/96 Henley St, Sparkbrook, Aston

James Smith head 39 revolver work
Lucy wife 38
James son 11
Lucy dau 9
Bertie son 7
Frederick son 4
Florence dau 2

Married 14 years


Terry
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

In 1901 James and Lucy lived with their son James at 5 London Terrace, Aston. That was in the parish of St Clements, Nechells.

Terry
 
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Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Terry,
Massive thanks, any recommendations how to track James and Lucy further back?
Do you know where London Terrace was?
Would love to know if anyone out there has pictures of Henley Street in the early 1900's.
Bob
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Found the following marriage!
Marriages Dec 1896
James Joseph Smith Aston 6d 573
Lucy Smith Aston 6d 573
more Smiths?
more confusion! :)
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Brilliant, if only you knew how many web sites I have trawled through trying to find what I have just received in the last two hours! Just to make it spookier, my wife's maiden name was..........Smith!
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

At that time Henley st seems to go up to the bend by the pub (PH), and so included some of what is now South road. I'm pretty sure no 96 was one of the houses in red, and so this would make back 96 one of the blue houses.
There are two London terraces listed in 1900, one off Willis st, the other off stella St. As it says it is in Nechells, then it must be the Stella St one, which is only a few yards from St Clements. I have marked no 5 in red (as I am pretty sure in this situation that the terrace would be numbered from the road). Stuart st is still there. so you can see where stella st and london terrace were
Mike

no_5_london_terrace2C_stella_st_c_1902.jpg


back_96_Henley_Road_1903_1914.jpg
 
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Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Hi Bob
27 Montgomery Street, Sparkbrook
1920 James Smith, Lucy Smith & James Smith
1922 Lucy Smith
1925 James Joseph & Lucy Smith
1930 James Joseph, Bertie, Frederick Robert Smith
1935 James Joseph Smith, Florence Garner, Beatrice Rene Garner
1939 James Joseph Smith

Suzanne
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Suzanne,
Thanks for the info, the search moves on!
Now know where my name (Robert) came from!
Bob
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

smithsquared said:
Terry,
Massive thanks, any recommendations how to track James and Lucy further back?

You would need to purchase their wedding certificate from B'ham register office. Lady Linda seems to have found them in the 14 year timeframe you're looking for. The information on the certificate would tell you where they was living at time of marriage and also their parents names and occupations and witnesses. But only you would be able to decide if they are the people you are looking for.

Terry
Click to expand...
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Terry,
Will try and get the certificate, will let you know how I get on.
Thanks again
Bob
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Just in case James' dad was named Robert this could be father and son in the 1891 census.
Civil Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical Parish: St Nicholas
Address: 36 Cecil St

name(s) .......Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born
SMITH Robert Head W M 54 Dyer(Em'ee) Derbyshire - Derby
SMITH James Son S M 20 Machinst(Em'ee) Derbyshire - Derby
BRINDLEY Alice Boardr W F 41 Servant (Hsekeeper) Derbyshire - Derby
(the housekeeper also had her son and his wife and children, also living with Robert and James)
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Terry,
Next on my list of to do's, will let you all know how I get on,
Thanks again for everyone's help, I actually think I am making progress now.
Bob
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Making progress now, received the marriage certificate for James and Lucy (14th Nov 1896) and found out my great grandfather was named Arthur Smith
From the 1891 census I found the following
Arthur Smith,Head,M,52,,Silver Smith,Employed,Coleshill,
Ann Smith,Wife,51, Born Willington Derbyshire,,
John A Smith,Son,23,Brass Worker, Employed,Birmingham,
George W Smith,Son,S,21,Gun Maker, Employed,Birmingham,
Florence J Smith,Dau,16,Gun Maker, Employed,Birmingham,
Albert E Smith,Son,10,Birmingham,
Frederick B Smith,Son,8,Birmingham
But no son James Joseph Smith (19 or 20), I did find a James Smith of the right age as a Barman at the Woodman Inn, 2 South Street, I believe this was in front of '1 back 96 Henley street' which is where my father was born in 1912!
Have searched and cannot find any images of Woodman Inn (South Road, Bordesley), Anyone out there know of any?
Lucy Smith still tracking!
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Hi,thought the following may help?
1901
Arthur Smith aged 62 Head born Coleshill,Warwickshire,Silversmith
Ann Smith aged 61 Wife born Willington,Derbyshire,
John A Smith aged 33 Son born Birmingham,Warwickshire,Chandelier
George W Smith aged 31 Son born Birmingham,Warwickshire,Tool Maker Machinist
Florence J Smith aged 26 Daughter born Birmingham,Warwickshire,Warehousewoman
Albert E Smith aged 20 Son born Birmingham,Warwickshire,Tram Conductor
Frederick R Smith aged 18 Son born Birmingham,Warwickshire,Art Metal Worker
living at 229 Nechells Park Road,
1911
Arthur SMITH, Head Married aged 72 born 1839 Warwickshire Coleshill,Caretaker (retired silversmith) Ann SMITH, Wife aged 71 born 1840 Willington Derbyshire,Caretaker
Florence Jane SMITH, Daughter Single aged 36 born 1875 Birmingham Warickshire,Warehouse Woman(hairpin manufacturers)
Married 50 years Had 12 children,7 still alive,5 have died
Address: 109 Great Charles St Birmingham
Marriages Sep 1860
Arthur Smith Birmingham 6d 218
Ann Eitoven Birmingham 6d 218
Births Registered Sep 1839
Ann Eitoven Burton on Trent vol 17 page 15
1861
Arthur Smith aged 32 Head born Coleshill, Warwickshire,Silver Smith
Ann Smith aged 21 Wife born Willington, Derbyshire,Dress Maker
William Shuttleworth aged 38 Brother In Law born Duclock, Warwickshire,Sawyer
Ann Shuttleworth aged 32 Sister born Coleshill, Warwickshire,Laundress
Charles W Shuttleworth aged 1 Nephew born Coleshill, Warwickshire
living at 428 New John Street West

From IGI
ANNE EITEOVEN
Female Christening: 18 AUG 1839 Willington, Derby, England
Parents:
Father: JOHN EITEOVEN
Mother: MATILDA
 
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Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

From IGI
ANNE EITEOVEN
Christening: 18 AUG 1839 Willington, Derby, England
Parents:
Father: JOHN EITEOVEN
Mother: MATILDA

JOHN EITOVEN
Parents:
Father: JOHN BARTON
Marriages:
Spouse: MATILDA PIPES
Marriage: 21 DEC 1837 Aston-On-Trent, Derby, England

MATILDA PIPES
Parents:
Father: JOHN KENT
Marriages:
Spouse: JOHN EITOVEN
Marriage: 21 DEC 1837 Aston-On-Trent, Derby, England

MATILDA PIPES OR KENT
Christening: 03 AUG 1817 Willington, Derby, England
Parents:
Father: JOHN KENT
Mother: ANN PIPES
 
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Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Ladylinda,
Wow, I am back further than I could ever have imagined, I don't know how you folks do it but I am extremely grateful.

Trying to track Lucy Smith (my Grandmother) is being a bit troublesome, the only 'Lucy Smith' I found (in the Warwickshire Ancestors Project — 1891, Transcript of Piece RG12/2404, Folio 60 Page 21), is as follows,

121,142 Angelina St,1,Edward Smith,Head,M,52,Mechanic,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,
Lydia Smith,Wife,M,52,Kidderminster Worcestershire,
Isabella Smith,Dau,S,27,Brass Burnisher,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,
Harry Smith,Son,S,22,Wire Worker,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,
***Lucy Smith,Dau,S,23,Iron Piercer,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire***
Edwin Smith,Son,S,18,Toolmaker,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,
Bertha Smith,Dau,S,16,Metal Burnisher,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,
Fred Smith,Son,13,Errand Boy,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,
Albert Smith,Son,12,Scholar,Birmingham Warwickshire,
Allan Smith,Son,7,Scholar,Birmingham Warwickshire,

Whilst her fathers name is right, her age is not correct, however based on the order that they are recorded I suspect the age has been incorrectly entered and she should be 18 or 19

Do you think I am correct?
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Mike,

Found out the other day that Henley Street does meet South Road at the bend just beyond where you maked 1 back 96 Henley Street. I also found out my Grand father (James Joseph Smith) was not at home for the 1891 census and I believe he was a resident Barman at the Woodman Inn, 2 South Street! Do you think this is the 'PH' on the corner of Henley Street. I can find no record elsewhere of this pub. Do you (or anyone know of any pictures of it.
Thanks again
Bob
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Bob
Yes Bob, the Woodman was the pub just on the corner. In 1912 the landlord was a William Checkley. The Woodman remained there till 1965,but after that is described for a few years as a beer retailer, so presumably was just used as an off licence after 1965
Mike
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Hi there,on the presumption that Edward and Lydia are Lucy's parents,what do you reckon to the following?
1911
Lydia SMITH, Head Widow aged 72 born 1839 Kiddermstr Worces
Alban SMITH, Son Single aged 27 born 1884 Bham Warwick,Chauffeur
Isabel SMITH, Daughter Single aged 47 born 1864 Silver Burnisher
Address: 17 Ladypool Avenue Ladypool Road Sparkbrook
Marriages Dec 1862
Smith Edward Kings N. 6c 603
GOODYEAR Lydia Kings N. 6c 603 (on free BMD this is logged as 6c 693,but looking at the original,I think it's 603)
Deaths
Name: Edward Smith (Estimated birth year: abt 1838)
Year of Registration: 1910:Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 72
District: Aston (1837-1924) County: Warwickshire
Volume: 6d Page: 136

1901
Edward Smith aged 62 Head born Aston,Warwickshire,Steam Engine Fitter
Lydia Smith aged 62 Wife born Kidderminster,Worcestershire
Isabell Smith aged 37 Daughter born Ladywood,Warwickshire,Metal Burnisher
Frederick Smith aged 23 Son born Aston,Warwickshire,Gas Engine Fitter
Albert Smith aged 22 Son born Aston,Warwickshire,Furniture Worker
living at 94 Long Street, Deritend
1881
Edward Smith 42 Head born Birmingham,Engineer's Fitter
Lydia Smith 42 Wife born Kidderminster,
Isabell Smith 17 Daughter born Birmingham,Silver Burnisher
Lucy Smith 13 Daughter born Birmingham,
Harry 11 Son born Birmingham,
Samuel Smith 10 Son born Birmingham,
Edwin Smith 8 Son born Birmingham,
Bertha Smith 6 Daughter born Birmingham,
Frederick Smith 3 Son born Birmingham,
Albert Smith 2 Son born Birmingham,
Racheal Smith 1 Daughter born Birmingham, Warwickshire
David Goodyear 38 Brother In Law born Kidderminster,Boat builder
living at 4 Leopold Street, Aston,
1871
Edward Smith aged 32 Head born Birmingham,Engine Fitter
Lydia Smith aged 32 Wife born Kidderminster,
Isabella Smith aged 7 Daughter born Birmingham
Walter Smith aged 4 Son born Birmingham,
Lucy Smith aged 3 Daughter born Birmingham
Harry Smith aged 1 Son born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Samuel Smith aged 3 months Son born Birmingham,
David Goodyear aged 27 Brother In Law born Kidderminster,Boat Builder
living at 4 Leopold Street, Deritend,
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Births Jun 1867
Lucy Smith Aston 6d 250
or
Births Mar 1868
Lucy Smith Aston 6d 238
or
Births Sep 1868
Lucy Smith Aston 6d 344
or
Births Mar 1870
Lucy Smith Birmingham 6d 87
1861
David Goodyear 51 Head born Tipton, Staffordshire,Timber Dealer
Hannah Goodyear 44 Wife born Kidderminster, Staffordshire
Lydia 23 Daur born Kidderminster,Staffordshire
Edwin 22 Son born Claddesley Corbet,Boat Builder
William 21 Son born Claddesley Corbet,Boat Builder
David 18 Son born Claddesley Corbet,Boat Builder
Nathan 17 Son born Claddesley Corbet,Labourer
Sarah 16 Daur born Chadley Corbet
Martin 13 Son born Birmingham,
Maria 13 Daur born Birmingham
Prissilla 11 Daur born Birmingham, Warwickshire
Edwin Smith 23 Lodger born Birmingham, Warwickshire,Engine Smith
living at 1 Front House,Icknield Port Road, Birmingham, Warwickshire
1851
David Goodyear 42 Head Sawyer & Timber Dealer Tipton, Staffordshire
Hannah Goodyear 36 Wife Kidderminster,
Thomas 13 Son Bewdley, Worcestershire
Lydia 12 Daughter Kidderminster, Worcestershire
Edwin 11 Son Chadsley, Worcestershire
William 10 Son Chadsley, Worcestershire
David 8 Son Chadsley, Worcestershire
Nathan 6 Son Chadsley, Worcestershire
Sarah 5 Daughter Chadsley, Worcestershire
Maria 2 Daughter Birmingham, Warwickshire
Martin 2 Son Birmingham, Warwickshire
Charlotte 4 months Daughter Birmingham, Warwickshire
Susan Parker 22 Hartlebury, Worcestershire,Servant
Sarah Parker 23 Visitor Hartlebury, Worcestershire
living at 4 Oozells Street,
LYDIA GOODYER
Christening: 09 JUL 1843 Chaddesley Corbett, Worcester, England
Parents: Father: DAVID GOODYER
Mother: HANNAH
Marriages:
DAVID GOODYEAR
Spouse: HANNAH WATSON Family
Marriage: 22 AUG 1836 Kidderminster, Worcester, England
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Oh Dear, now I am confused, according to the Wedding Certificate Lucy was 23 when she married James Joseph Smith on 14th November 1896, which means she was probably born in 1873. Her father on the Wedding Certificate is just listed as Edward Smith, Tube Filer. The Lucy you have found is consistent with being born in 1868 so I think she is not the right one.
Many thanks for trying.
Bob
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Mike,
Cheers for that, do you think there is anywhere I might find photos of the area?
Bob
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Bob
i don't know of any, but would have thought, with the relatively recent demise of the pub, there should be some somewhere. Worth you asking Phil . h
He's away for a few days, but might have one
Mike
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Hi Bob,All of the other Lucy's I checked had a differently named father.
Coincidentally,in the 1861 census there was an Edwin Smith lodging with Lydia's family.
 
Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

according to the Wedding Certificate Lucy was 23 when she married James Joseph Smith on 14th November 1896, which means she was probably born in 1873
Click to expand...
This could still be your Lucy if all other details fit... My Gran was down as a few years younger than her real age and my Granddad was was down as a coulple of years older than his real age on their marriage cert' . Ages were often not checked out in the past and people just changed their ages to suit like my Gran and Granddad, or in many cases just did not know their real age... ages were also changed on Census' too, the best and usually the only way to comfirm the age of someone is to get a Birth cert'
 
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Re: Sorry but it is another Smith search

Hi everyone,
Sorry for the long break in communication, have been busy but wanted to give an update. All the information received regarding my grandmother Lucy Smith seems to be correct, it does seem that she may well have told a small Porkie regarding her age when she got married (that's women for you!). To set the record straight she was born on Christmas day 1867 at 'back 110 Charles Henry Street, and registered by her mother Lydia on 20th January 1868. Thanks to LadyLinda, your assumptions do seem to be spot on.
Then we get to the problem, Lydia listed Lucy's father as 'Edwin Smith' (Machinist and Journey Man) which matches with the 1861 Census return which lists 'Edwin Smith' as the lodger at Lucy Goodyear's parents home at 1 Front House, Icknield Port Road, Birmingham, Warwickshire. This all makes sense except that 'Edwin' lists himself as 'Edward' on his and Lydia's wedding certificate. They were married on 13th Oct 1862 at Parish church Edgbaston which gives me the name of Edward's father who was called Samuel and he was an Auctioneer. This is where the trial goes cold, since Edward was lodging in 1861 I can't find a reference to him and his father Samuel and am therefore stumped on any other ancestors. Any help would be really appreciated.
Finally, on the Goodyear side I am back to Hannah Watson and David Goodyear, Ladylinda told me they were married on 22nd August 1836 in Kidderminster, Worcester. Anyone know where I can apply for a copy of their Wedding Certificate.
Thanks for all the help so far
Bob
 
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