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Paradise Street

Astoness

Astoness

TRUE BRUMMIE MODERATOR
Staff member
nice pic here of paradise st looking towards christ church...thanks to bordesley exile (shirley) for this one..she had family living there in 1840 i think so any more pics of this street would be great..

lyn
 
Lyn

This drawing is a little nearer the required year of 1840. It is dated 1874. Those beautiful buildings along Paradise St were torn down to be replaced by a concrete block.

Phil

CityParadiseStChristChurch1874.jpg
 
Thanks, Lyn & Phil. That quite a juxtoposition, with the grand buildings in that view & the Canal Offices & Old Wharf with coal being offloaded at the other end. From what I have gleaned from old directories there were lots of small educational establishments and many coal agents in Paradise St, though my GGGGrandfather was a labourer.
 
phil..thats a smashing drawing...such a pity those lovely buildings had to go...

thanks for posting it...

lyn
 
Lovely drawing Phil just look at the magnificent Christ Church complimenting the Town Hall. Many thought it was an ugly church but it certainly was massive!
 
Thanks for these pictures; the black and white one is most unusual and I have seen neither before. Thanks again.
A Happy Christmas to all Forum members and a safe and peaceful New Year.
Ted
 
Have to agree with that silver. I think the black and white shows a view from the rear of the town hall and the old houses on the left would have been where the art gallery stands. There are other 60s views on here somewhere and the only commonality is the town hall.
 
Rupert I agree, the drawing looks to be more Congreve St and what was to become Chamberlain Square.

Bordesley exile I don't think I have ever seen a view of that area at that time, and I don't think it has ever been seen on the forum before. Thanks for the opportunity of seeing it, and with your permission I will take a copy for my collection.

In the meantime, here is what looks like a late Victorian image of Paradise Street , note that Christchurch has now gone and Galloway's Corner can now be seen.

Phil

CityParadiseSt.jpg
 
Now if only the air raid shelter of a town hall could be erased....ah well gotta luv it. If it were a choice between it surviving and the Central Library and Midland Institute though, I think that I would have chosen the latter. Then again as a stand alone historical building, it probably enhances the modern scene, as a link to the past, better than they would.

Links to the past are important as landmarks of continuity. They somehow give off a sense of comfort.

I have a photo taken in the 60s of the back of the town hall. Pretty much the same spot. I will make the effort to dig it out and scan it. My scanner is only a multi-function device so hope it is good enough.
 
Thanks for the clarification. If the pic is of Congreve St / Chamberlain Square then it gives us real insigts into the area. I'll look forward to your picture, Rupert. Thanks for the picture, Phil.
 
More pictures of Paradise St. I have included pictures of Old Wharf as years ago it was described as Old Wharf Paradise St. The pictures of the canal office look like those of Birmingham Canal Co, but please correct me if I am wrong. The photo of the Old Wharf end of Paradise St looks to have yet more grand buildings, so I am rather puzzled that an 1841 labourer would have this as his address - perhaps there were lower quality tenements at the back of Paradise St.
Oops I repeated you picture, Phil.
 
I agree that the buildings look very grand, and this is reinforced by the 1890 map (a long time later I know). But one entry in the 1841 Pigotts directory reads:
Tabberner Charlotte, boarding house, 40 Paradise street
Of course it doesn't say what level of boarding house she kept.
Mike
 
Ok, I have found my picture and it would have been taken from the same spot as the artist would have set up except maybe he would have been slightly further forward maybe. If I had panned more to the right from that more forward position it would have been the same view and would have caught the rear corner of the town hall. Anyway it's all that I have of the area. On the right of the photo is the corner of the great old central library and of course the clock tower and Art Gallery ahead. On the forum somewhere there is a shot taken from maybe 30 yards further along the street and looking back towards the porticoed entrance to the library.
Now I hope that I can post the picture...remember not a great scanner.

Aha, now the old houses in the sketch would have been where the art gallery is.
 
Found the other picture by Ann. From further along the street from mine and looking away from the Art Gallery. The town hall is behind the fountain and at the end of the street between it and the Midland Institute is Paradise Street. With the brickwork cleaned up a bit the old library would have been a gem...but we have been through this all before. These last two pictures are contemporary date wise.
 
Thank you for the look up Mike & the picture, Rupert. I had not given thought to the possibility of the 1841 Milners living in a boarding house. The only early map I can find showing building footprints does suggest that in 1838 there were indeed L shaped properties, but of course we cannot determine whether the extra at the back were wash houses etc.
If I do buy new tree software through Amazon & get a 6 month access to Ancestry one solution would be to look up the 1841 neighbours of George & Ann Milner to see if they lived in a guest house or if a close neighbour was the guesthouse proprieter.
It looks to me, Rupert, that the grand buildings behind the fountain in your picture were not too dissimilar to those properties which stood further down Paradise St, though do correct me if you disagree.
Again, thank you both.
Shirley
 
shirley
I can't find Ann or George Milner in paradise st on Ancestry.( nor charlotte Tabberner either, unless she moved back to live with her parents in warston lane before the census). Mind you that is the ancestry Search system so there might be hundreds of them
Mike
 
Thank you for looking, Mike. No, I could not find George Milner either when I started researching on Ancestry over a year ago. I might have been with FindMyPast when I located his census record. I am emailing record HO 107/1147/1 to you. I also looked on FMP address search this evening for 1841, but 40 Paradise St was not listed.
Shirley
 
The two pictures that I just posted might have been taken on the same day by two different people. Me and someone else. If not the same day it must have been the same time of year and pretty close. Check out the tree by the fountain.
Except the tree next to the lampost is missing on the first one. So the second one must be a little earlier.
 
Thanks for the scan Shirley. It looks like it is at the end of a persons round, possibly the end of a district. Because they give little detail its difficult to see where it might be. I attach a 1890 map which shows where no 40 was (one of the buildings in red). In the 1845 directory, which gives a list of occupants in the street (unlike 1841 where you have to search), Mrs Tabberner is listed at 40 , but it doesn't say boarding house. The enumerator went from Suffolk st up Paradise St . so i reckon he probably went up the south side, but there's no way of knowing how far up the milners were.
Incidentally I reckon the scan must be in district 1 of AllSaints. Ancestry lists districts 2 and 3 as part of HO 107/1147/1, but doesn’t list a district 1
Mike

paradise_st_No_40_c1890.jpg
 
Hi there,
Re 1841 census and the Milners.
At the top of the address column,it has Suffolk Street, but further down that column it has Paradise Street,Old Wharf.Would that pinpoint the Milners any better?(HO 107 1147/1) Sorry if you've already established it!
In 1841,Charlotte does indeed appear in Warstone Lane with family.(HO107/1140/6)
 
Thank you, Mike, for pointing out the enumerator's route & providing the map.
Thank you Ladylina for the input on location. Yes, I do agree the census seems at first blush a good pointer to the siting, but the reason that I find Paradise St a more persuasive location than Old Wharf itself is that by 1841 the Birmingham Canal Co had already built their offices facing down Paradise St. I cannot see any obvious dwellings as part of that structure. On the 1839 map there are no properties next door to the offices & if JM lived further down that would appear to put his address as Suffolk St which is not what was recorded. It is a very strange census sheet listing however & I may never know for certain what the enumerator meant. The only solution is to access BCC plans of the office & wharf, if they even exist, which is unlikely.
 
I wonder if your labourer relative worked on canal maintenance. If so he may have lived on board a work boat and his mailing address would be the wharf office. It would seemingly make some sense as he would be away from base with heavy tools for extended periods and a permanent fixed location would not be advantageous. Working for the canal company, he would not be descrbed as a boatman perhaps.
 
Thats a really interesting idea, Rupert, & one I am mulling over. On a balance of probabilities I think George was connected with the canals, in later life at least, but hitherto I had wondered if he was involved in offloading coal at Old Wharf. As he subsequently moved to Reservoir Cottage at Rotten Park Reservoir there may have been direct or indirect canal maintanence to carry out there too.
 
hi all..what great photos and drawings are now being posted on this thread...shirley i see your george milner is still leading you a merry dance but knowing you and your dedication to your family history you will get to the bottom of it....look forward to any developements...

lyn..
 
George is indeed one of my awkward squad, Lyn! Until I can get up to Birmingham & access the St Phillips registers I do not think I can discover much more about him.
I have read somewhere that George Dickens gave a reading at the Town Hall. According to Chris Upton A History of Birmingham page 89 Dickens refered to a visit by Mr Pickwick to a wealthy wharfinger in "an old red brick house, with very white steps and very red bricks, and a plate on the door, bearing in fat Roman capitals the words "Mr Winkle"".
Shirley
 
shirl...i am sure you will weedle george out...btw i have emailed you with some info...pretty sure its not your george..more of a coinsidence i think..

lyn...
 
Shirley
Regarding your comment about Dickens, the 1855 directory lists:
Winkle William, tailor , draper & hatter, 67 Constitutfon lHill​

Winkles William, Crown & Cushion, Higb st. Aston New town
mike
 
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