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Moor End Green House

just posting this again in the hopes someone can find a map showing moors house which according to the caption was in moor end lane erdington..the photographer was more interested in the large barn in this photo as the caption says "large barn near moors house..moor end lane" ive had a good look now and there is definately what appears to be a substantial house to the right of the barn with a gate leading (so could this be moors house?) with the lane turning sharpish at the barn..

old barn nr moors house moor end lane erdington.png

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17&lat=52.5230&lon=-1.8339&layers=6&b=3
 
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Vivienne14 said:
Just for info Poplar Cottage is still there today, much enlarged. It's had various additions over time according to Bill Dargue's site and part dates back to late 18th century. Viv.
Click to expand...
It is not far from the junction with Berkswell Road and that appears to be at the side of where the "Moat House" was - using Lyn's map. So the "barn" could be one of the buildings to the left (as you look at the map).
Red ring is possibly Poplar Cottage. Blue is Berkswell Road
 

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Lyn - sorry about this but on Birmingham Library "calm view" your photo is captioned - Old barn near Moat House, Moor End Lane.
 
many thanks jan...yet another wrong caption but at least the correct location:rolleyes:

lyn
 
Up to the 1901 Census and JW (50) with wife Mary (50) and down as a farmer. Also living there is son John (5) and daughter Louisa (9) plus a servant.

In another dwelling there is Jane W (51) and sister Luisa (52)

In a further dwelling is William W (45) as a farmer

Whitehouse Buildings have now appeared, and named cottages are appear regularly.
 
Moving to the last census of 1911 is interesting as there is only one entry being Jane Diana Ann Whitehouse (61), single and living by private means. Also there is Louisa Diana Mary W niece (17) and John Bullient W nephew (15) plus servant. All at POPLAR COTTAGE

The dwelling prior to Poplar Cottage is Ash Cottage and the one after is the Chestnuts. We are then close to the MOAT HOUSE.
 
No help with the address in his probate record either. He is listed in the 1867 Post Office Directory (presumably compiled before his death) as a farmer of "Mott House"
 

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His widow, Jane, who died in 1874 is listed at Moat House as are the children John Daniel and Louisa Elizabeth - think we have them earlier.
 

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What a lot of property and land they had (well in the 1860s judging by John Whitehouses will). The 'Moors' is mentioned in JW's will as the name of 3 pieces of meadow land with 2 cottages and garden.

Viv.
 
Well Janice, I think you've excelled yourself there! There's a lot to take in and I have a map with lots of the fields mentioned so with a little luck I shall be able to identify things. Thank you for finding this and to Pedro for his help too. I believe one will mentions the four cottages highlighted in an earlier post.
 
Thanks Pen - it was after I found the marriage to Mary Trease. I was searching for Whitehouse on Google and it threw up that site - when I checked it I was surprised how much information it gave even though some links no longer work. Look forward to the next installment - are you able to put the map??
 
Janice, sorry for the delay in responding to your question about the map - I suffered from a case of 'Murphy's Law' yesterday in that my part of the Erdington field names map only went just beyond the High Street, so as I was going to the Research Group, I took it along with me to ask for the other part showing Moor End Lane. Unfortunately the assistant I spoke to didn't recognise it (although she was the one who originally copied it) and searched through the map cabinet but with no joy. She's always very helpful but I think the archives are in a bit of a state. There has been a lot of upheaval at Sutton Library so I suppose it's understandable but disappointing. No one in the group recognised it either but it's an Erdington map and a Sutton Group so not really surprising.
 
A little bit more to add to the above: I was going through a large book at Sutton Library called Erdington Jottings by Meacham and found a note saying "Methulaem Whitehouse (being part of the Lord's waste)".

I looked on Familysearch and found that he was a nailer from Erdington and married Alice Barrel at Gt Packington in 1730 going on to have two sons William in 1732 and John in 1733. There may be more. He also appears as Methuselah and Mothagelem Whitehurst! I do love some of these transcriptions. Presume it's the former.

Also found the original John living with his father, Daniel, mother and sister Ann on the 1841 census all at Moor End Green House. Daniel was born between 1772 and 1776. If there is a connection then am I right in thinking there must be another generation?

I'm also wondering if Methuselah built one house on 'The Lord's Waste' he may well have built the building which later became the Greyhound.

Any thoughts and ideas would be very welcome. Thanks.
 
Penny - the census just says "Moor End Green" - sorry to say I can't find the word "house". It seems to be an area - with about 13 entries all as Moor End Green. I found a baptism for John (born 1803) parents Daniel and Ann at St Peter and Paul Aston.
 
Thanks Janice, I think there were so few dwellings at that time there was no need to be more specific. There are another 3 'Jottings' books so I'll plough my way through and see if I can find any other references.
Penny
 
I thought I had found Methuselah but it can't be the one you found as this one was buried in 1728. However, it is recorded as Erdington! Burial at St Peter and Paul Aston.
 
I'll make a note of that anyway as there must be a connection mustn't there? Don't suppose there's any other info as it's rather early isn't it? I'll have to go to Central Library when I can summon up the energy.
 
There are a few possibilities but as you say it is early and so records have very little info. I will try later to see if I can spot others but I think Daniel Whitehouse is quite a common name!!
 
Yes, Daniel Whitehouse is quite common but I'll just keep digging. I found one that I thought may be connected but he's buried in Sutton.

That's interesting Peter. Thanks. Could well be the original John's father I think, judging by the date.
 
Gosh, I wish I'd seen this thread two years ago, as this is my 'manor' and I researched the Whitehouse family and related buildings many years ago. I was brought up in Moor End Lane (hence my moniker), and I remember many of the buildings mentioned in the various posts prior to demolition.

Just as a taster: there is a wonderful photo of the elizabethan Moat House amongst the Benjamin Stone collection in Birmingham Central Library. Surprisingly, this photo has never been published to my knowledge, despite its incredible historical significance. If anyone could pull some strings and upload it to this forum, it would be a job well done.
 
Hi Moor End Lad,

It was a really nice surprise to find that there is someone else researching the Whitehouses. I'm very interested in them but have 'got stuck' on Daniel's birth. I was hoping to find a will on line for him but no success so far. On the 1851 census his birthplace is given as Bromsgrove but on the 1841 census he was born in Warwickshire. I was hoping to be able to go to Central Library and see what records they have in the Wolfson Centre but there's not much chance of that at the moment. Just when they'd got the tram organised so that I didn't have to walk up Pinfold Street! I also haven't managed to find his death - sometime between 1851 and 1861 is the closest I've got but there are several options. My interest in them is really to do with a piece of land in a different part of Erdington but, as usual, you get interested in 'the tangent'. I believe that the family moved into this property in about 1802 which was probably around the time Daniel & Ann(e) were married.

Look forward to hearing any information you can share.

Penny
 
Hello Penny. All I know of Daniel and Ann Whitehouse is probably what you have already picked up from the censuses. Daniel was born c1775 and Ann c1780 and they had an only son John in 1803. They were a family of farmers who took over Moor End Green Farm from c1833 (according to Meacham). Prior to this they may have lived towards the High Street end of Bell Lane (now Orphanage Road) (again according to Meacham).

Moor End Green Farm and farmhouse stood on the North side of Moor End Lane immediately to the West of Dunvegan Road. Indeed, the farm buildings and fields were released c1934 for the building of the Dunvegan Road estate. The farmhouse itself survived to 1968 until vacant and vandalised. It was then demolished in favour of a couple of incongruous 1970s houses. I used to pass it as a child on the way to the Palace Cinema. Prior to 1935 the farm was under the stewardship of dairyman Simeon Braggington.

My working assumption has always been that references to 'Moor End Green House' are references to the farmhouse. However, I've always been puzzled by the lack of references to the large property just to the East, which shows clearly on maps and was demolished c1904 as part of the Edwards Road development. It is conceivable that such property may have been 'Moor End Green House' or a capacious 'Ash Tree Cottage'.

I have to clarify that I have no great interest in the history of the Whitehouse family itself other than who owned and inhabited what and when within this area of Erdington.
 
The Whitehouses are also not my main interest but I'm trying to connect them to other Whitehouses in Erdington.

I have a couple of notes which might interest you. P.28 of A Historical Tour Around Erdington: "Moat House Farm, double gabled building thriving on 'the old moat site'." This book is in Sutton Reference Library so no access at the moment.

Quote from Erdington News 24th May 1975 - Obituary for John B Whitehouse who died in the North Cotswolds in the previous year.

"J B Whitehouse moved out of Moat House Farm in 1952 when he was 56, his family having lived at Moor End for 150 years. He and his sister owned Moat House Farm. (I think that Daniel Whitehouse probably moved in on his marriage to Anne).

He was born at Moor End Farm, No. 60 Moor End Lane, his great grandfather (Also John Bullivant Whitehouse) served as Peoples' Warden 1861-1865. John B Whitehouse died 1974 - Peoples' Warden 1936-44."

Another snippet I have (nothing to do with the Whitehouses) from the book mentioned above is "1920, small open space - Spring Lane / Fern Road. Gypsies used to park their caravans here on their way from the Onion Fair at Aston to Tamworth."
 
Thanks for those notes Penny. I believe that the book 'A Historical Tour Around Erdington' is based upon the work of N C Meacham, who was an enthusiastic and productive Erdington historian. After his death, his son had his comprehensive notes collated and typed up into the book to which you refer. This work has become a very complete bible on Erdington to later historians.

I borrowed the book from Erdington Library over 20 years ago, and photocopied some 20 pages from it concerning my areas of special interest. In retrospect I wish I'd copied the whole of it. However, there is a big WARNING in relation to the copious detail extracted and collated from various directories in relation to people and times and places. At risk of sounding bitchy only 50% of what I double check in my areas of knowledge turns out to be correct; the remainder always has a kernel of veracity but applies to someone or somewhere else. It is vital that later historians check everything for themselves rather than repeating from this work else it perpetuates historical inaccuracy. Notice that wherever I have not checked something for myself, I use the phrase 'According to Meacham', which translates as 'You need to check this yourself'.

That said, let me correct a couple of things. I don't think Daniel and Ann ever owned Moat House Farm; it seems to have entered the family's ownership within the dynasty of their son John. John and his wife Elizabeth remained in the family home at Moor End Green, but they installed their only son John Bullivant into Moat House. JB predeceased his father by 3 years, so in 1868 Moat House Farm was bequeathed by John to his eldest grandson William. William farmed until his death in 1906, whereupon his estate was divided between his younger siblings Louisa Elizabeth, Jane Diana Ann and John Daniel. JD's son John Bullivant II may have lived at Moat House, but certainly not until 1952, because it was demolished in 1934. Indeed, he lived at 'Holcombe' in Spring Lane until retiring to Moreton in the Marsh in I believe 1944.

Interestingly, you cite Moor End Green Farm as #60 Moor End Lane, whereas I seem to have it as #76.

I'll now try to answer some of the questions that have been raised in earlier posts.
 
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