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Libraries Under Threat

hi lynn
so they are gonna get rid of old spring hill libary well thats ashame because its a smart lookng libary
but there again in this given day and age the whole area as gone and its popoulation of comunitity plus that as changed as well within the
comunitity i spent thousands of hours in there and i have payed quite afew fines for over the time limited and tey came knocking the door to check if i still have them
but i drive down there passing te old spring hill libary and you do not see a soul its more ghostly lookng than walking in and down warstone lane cemetry
late on the evenings sad it may be i would think its costing money to keep it open plus it could be to do the widening of the roads as a kid growing up there we often spoke about he future years to come and the express way to come up across from hockley and through up the ivy bush and down on to the hagley rd
which incidently will be happening as it being prepared now to come off at quinton m5 in not so distance away will be a charge rd up from the m5 motor way
this is why the yellow cameras are being set up over the years this in fact was mentioniond on the bbc a couple of years ago they did give an indigication the time
it was planning to do it but they have already done some yellow cameras but i cannt think which year its gonna be ,
i think nechells libary will be first thou when i drive down monument rd passing where i was brought up and my youth days reflect as it as i knew it and and busy envoiroment it was and it population we have to face the fact today spring hill is a lame duck just like aston cross no population but as you know there are other libaries laying
empty i would imagine erdinton libary would be thriving with its local communeity best wishes alan ;; astonian;
 
I am a bit worried about our local library - there is a notice on the door saying they are closed on Monday over lunchtime for an "emergency staff briefing" and I know some of their staff have to split their time between 2 libraries to be able to work full time.
Janice
 
hi pjmburns
Its all down to cost cutting where ever the council can save money get the extra work done by excisting employees get a worker for the price of two
thats the way i see it ; with any bussiness ;may be they do not have the right staffing at another libary lets face it you can not have a libary where there is only one members operating its like a shop you cannot have one memnber of a shop runninig a bussiness and that is a health and safety issue for variuos reasons
whilst on the case of us discusing the cut backs may i mention there will be cost cutting coming in the very near future of dear old cadburys again after promises there will not be yet they are investing in 175 MILLION INVESTMENT AT CADBURYS NEW AUTOMATION Plant which will mean redunties for them ; 60 percent of the work force will go in about 18 months they said they will never do it but they are crafty and as we was kids growing and relizeing that the dan dare comics we read would forsee our future
and as kids of the yester years and very young we would state that the future and the world would be taken over by robats which is the case slowly but surely its happenig to our society instance now we have this latest technoly of tablets and computors where we can do our reading in tablets and other gadgets so we do not reallyneed so many libaries today and i think you find the nationioal news papers will become exstint there sales have dropped and we are looseing slowly but surely our
ageing population whom after all was the back bone of keeping our libaries open and in demand
areas like selly oak and mosely heavenly populated by students they have libaries in there campus,s but also now they have our great big libary a world of wealth of information and i think our council does forsee the future and plann years ahead of our time for us but thats my opinuin the libaries are of history in both forms of expression ;
best wishes Astonian;;;;
 
pjmburns said:
I am a bit worried about our local library - there is a notice on the door saying they are closed on Monday over lunchtime for an "emergency staff briefing" and I know some of their staff have to split their time between 2 libraries to be able to work full time.
Janice
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hello janice well that does not sound too good does it...if you find out that your library could also be axed maybe you could inform us...

lyn
 
That's criminal! I use the library a lot, fortunately I'm in Worcestershire and our local library is, I think, safe (for the time being). Cuts have to be made I s'pose. but it's never Councillors allowances, is it?
Bad enough that they allowed that Tosspots (Tesco) building to be put next door, but to close Spring Hill Library ... it makes my blood boil. Cutting opening hours would be a start, but let's hope (if push comes to shove) volunteers and community associations will step in.
 
None of this comes as a surprise to me, even though I live some 200 miles distance.

I read quite recently that the Cities libraries would suffer as a result of the huge expenditure on the new library in the City Centre. This was national news, not local to Birmingham. So whoever wrote it seems like they were 'spot on the money'!
 
When they built the new ASDA in Chelmsley Wood a couple of years ago they placed a purpose built library/computer centre above it so I can do my shopping and change my books at the same time (I am an avid reader),but the problem is it gets so little usage, often more staff than visitors so it is a prime target to shut or reduce hours if the council still needs to do more cost cutting and the locals will only have themselves to blame - use it or lose it springs to mind. Perhaps these branch libraries in Brum are lacking usage giving council reason for shutting them down. I do not think people read as much as they used to, especially the young, hence the dwindling usage of the library. Eric
 
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I've got a good idea, lets sell off that monstrosity on Broad Street and utilise the funds received to repair all the crumbling local libraries, because the way things are going the central library will be the only one left. Perhaps that was the intent in the first place. Lets face it there is obviously no love of old buildings from Birmingham City Council and soon if things are allowed to continue Birmingham will have no heritage.
 
It would be interesting to know what percentage of visitors go to the new Birmingham Library to actually change books ?????? Very few I would bet. Eric
 
dont start me off charlie...

excellent idea phil and of course i agree with your sentiments that bcc just do not care about our buildings and heritage..we are a history forum and as such i would like to think that most of its members are worried about the loss of so much since the early 60s..i have long since given up the hope that they will have seconds thoughts and realise that as you pointed out if the distruction of our fine buildings does not stop and stop soon then we will have nothing left..

eric i am sure that up until dec the new library were not even ready to lend books out..and they opened in sept..

lyn
 
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Phil said:
I've got a good idea, lets sell off that monstrosity on Broad Street and utilise the funds received to repair all the crumbling local libraries, because the way things are going the central library will be the only one left. Perhaps that was the intent in the first place. Lets face it there is obviously no love of old buildings from Birmingham City Council and soon if things are allowed to continue Birmingham will have no heritage.
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Phil Agree with you on all that
 
Can we stick to the subject of the topic - we already have a thread about the new library and as it is unlikely that it will be sold off any time soon such speculation seems to have no purpose. Apart from which visitor numbers and positive comments from here and around the world, suggest that Birmingham has a success on its hand. I do not understand why we always knock our City's achievements when so many of its rival are willing to do it for us.

Rant over.
 
BernardR


I was suggesting that this library on Broad Street was built as the expense of older much loved historical buildings. Surely this has relevance to history forum, because if it hasn't then I don't know what has?

If it has no relevance why then did you have to add your own support of the building, I cannot see what historical relevance that adds.
 
another of the issues i have with the closures of so many public libraries (apart from the fact that most of them are fine buildings) is when they have all gone..and go they will then how are the elderly and infirm meant to borrow books not everyone in the land have things like kindles ect...are they expected to travel from one side of birmingham to the other to the main library in town..i can see a surge in the next few years in mobile libraries...a little more thought for our elderly citizens would have been nice instead of gearing everything up for the young ones...

my rant over..

lyn
 
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It was said earlier in the thread that it's dead around Spring Hill but the last time i popped into the Tesco there it was heaving, probably the street itself is quiet but it's not dead. Wouldn't Tesco's have something to say about a closure as didn't they part fund the Library's refurbishment and why couldn't they chip in to help it keep going?.
 
Look as long as the same number of books and the same number of resources stay within the community then it matters not what building the library services are run from. I'd much rather they were run from the original purpose built building, but that is not to be by the look of things.

So what happens to these lovely old buildings, that were paid for by our parents and grandparents out of their taxes and rates at a time when they could hardly afford to feed themselves and their families. That's what makes it so incorrigible in these so called times of plenty that they have ever been allowed to get into this condition. I'm not sorry that I get so agitated over things like this, because every rime I read something like this I see in my minds eye the Golden Lion in Cannon Hill Park just waiting to fall down.
 
I guess this problem is not unique to the City Of Birmingham. After my earlier post I remembered reading that Torbay (Devon) library service is conducting a survey of its readers and users. This survey asks how folks use their libraries: times of day and days of week, what do they do there? How often do they borrow books, use the computers, just use catering facilities (where they exist) and so forth. Like all councils money has to be saved but hopefully there may not be closures but solely opening hours and staff alterations.
Torbay being an area with a high older population libraries are reasonably still well used I believe. Whatever, the old adage 'use it or lose it' must apply.
 
I was involved in computerised library management systems (including Birmingham) from 1988 until just two years ago. The downfall of the libraries began with the advent of the internet and the World Wide Web. Until then each library had its reference section, much used by businessmen to consult various trade directories such as Kompass. They now get their information from the internet. Children were quite large users of the libraries, but now many schools have their own extensive libraries. Cataloguers - once one of the top jobs in libraries - have now almost disappeared as all the data is now provided by the British Library and three specialist servicing companies. Librarians struggled to keep pace with the loss of customers and staff as self-issue machines took over. Their answer was to turn the libraries into a sort of internet cafe by purchasing loads of PCs, but they seem to be largely used by teenagers chatting to their mates on social media. That really leaves just the pensioners.......

I accept all the points about all the wonderful old buildings and the loss to the pensioners, but I can't offer a solution. It also impacts on the company that I worked for, down from 240 employees in 2001 to less than 50 now. Library authorities are no longer putting out tenders for new systems. Instead they are forming themselves into consortia, where many libraries share the same system. The London Libraries Consortium didn't exist in 2001, but two years ago it comprised twelve library authorities all sharing the same system. For the library authorities this has many advantages in so far as the computer hardware is now no longer on their premises, interlibrary loans are much simpler as they can now access the catalogues of any library in the consortium, and the same company provides their PCs and internet connections.

I think we've now passed the point of no return and the outlook for our buildings and local facilities is not good.

Maurice
 
Phil
I don't think you are entirely correct there. Some libraries were provided , not from taxes and rates, but by external benefactors, (eg. Carnegie, Adderley (Adderley park library)). Leaving apart the question as to whether these were only provided as a sop to the person's own conscience, the original purpose of the contribution is ignored when councils wish to make cuts, the land sold off, and, likely as not , the "profit" from the cuts used for some completely unsuitable purpose such as building a "keynote" building in order to swell the profits of some consultancy which is probably based , for monetary purposes, in the Cayman Islands, and to boost the self importance of some councillor.
 
I think we need to utilise these buildings as has been mentioned. Its such a shame people use kindles etc to read books, technology is not helping. I am glad to say my grandson loves to go to our local library and choose some books. He is encouraged by his mother who also loves to read a real book..lol. I went to a talk by Carl Chinn a few years ago at Tamworth Library, it was not expensive and standing room only. Maybe other speakers could do this. I think it would be nice to encourage groups like History, Genealogy groups to utilise library's. We need to get our thinking caps on but at the end of the day they are lovely places and I would hate to be without them.
 
We were interested at Christmas to see how my grandchildren and Linda's nephews got absorbed in the books we bought them despite having Kindles or iPad Minis. Also it was a delight to see the children's area at the Library of Birmingham being used on each of our visits their. Same with the Solihull Libraries. Usage of our libraries by children needs to be promoted us and by parents so they stay in use.
 
It's a fact that the impact of the internet and technology has significantly changed the way we do things. Businesses have had to change, we've all had to change at work or home .... etc etc. So libraries are no exception. I feel that, like businesses, libraries should assess their market and customer usage and adapt accordingly. The flow through of people lending books has dropped, so what can libraries do to ensure their future? The answer must be 'adapt' in some way, look for new approaches. The question they need to answer for themselves is what can they do to ensure their survival? Whatever your views about the local library vs new Library of Birmingham are, all services need to have viability. Think the issue needs some major creative thinking to get local libraries back on the map. It need to take account of today's society, not the past usage otherwise they really will be a thing of the past. And this should of course include services for that section of their customers who have access needs or specific needs (senior users). I loved my local library when I was young and although I still use our local library, I do most things at home via the internet, including all my reading. And yes, holding a real book in your hands is like nothing else. But let's face it, there aren't enough people who want to do that anymore to keep library services going.

Having had a rant, it's still no excuse to bulldoze some wonderful, historic buildings. I just hope libraries can find their place in today's society. Time to put on their thinking caps. viv.
 
Vivienne14 said:
It's a fact that the impact of the internet and technology has significantly changed the way we do things. Businesses have had to change, we've all had to change at work or home .... etc etc. So libraries are no exception. I feel that, like businesses, libraries should assess their market and customer usage and adapt accordingly. The flow through of people lending books has dropped, so what can libraries do to ensure their future? The answer must be 'adapt' in some way, look for new approaches. The question they need to answer for themselves is what can they do to ensure their survival? Whatever your views about the local library vs new Library of Birmingham are, all services need to have viability. Think the issue needs some major creative thinking to get local libraries back on the map. It need to take account of today's society, not the past usage otherwise they really will be a thing of the past. And this should of course include services for that section of their customers who have access needs or specific needs (senior users). I loved my local library when I was young and although I still use our local library, I do most things at home via the internet, including all my reading. And yes, holding a real book in your hands is like nothing else. But let's face it, there aren't enough people who want to do that anymore to keep library services going.
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What an excellent well thought out update.

Whether we like it or not, things are changing, more and more of what we see and do is "electronic" and digital based (be it via a computer, tablet, smartphone, TV or a combination of them all).

Probably in 50 years time there will be no such things as newspapers, books, CDs or DVDs.

Some well known magazines, like Newsweek, have already stopped producing a print/paper version and moved to a totally "online" version.

https://money.cnn.com/2012/10/18/news/companies/newsweek-print-edition/

More and more local newspapers are closing down, and over the next few years I would expect some of the major national newspapers to either close down or become just a weekly edition.

Less people are getting music, films or computer games on CDs or DVDs (for example Blockbuster has closed down) and more and more people "download" films, games and music using things like iTunes or Netflix or catch services like on Sky and Virgin or on a computer.

Probably in 100 years time none of us will need to go anywhere, we just do it all in front of the screens in our house. We order our food from the supermarket via a screen, we talk to our friends and family over a screen, we look at family photos over a screen, we read newspapers, books and magazines over a screen, maybe we even go on holiday by looking at far away places on a screen.

I am not saying I like or agree with all of this, but it is the way things are going.
 
i agree with you guilbert excellent post by viv and wendy as is your own...i think the best we can hope for is one day soon and it will have to be very soon the powers that be will wake up and realise that yes we have to have progress its only natural but PLEASE cant we keep a little bit of our past history as well...

lyn
 
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Mike

I understand that some of the libraries were originally donated, but not all by a long chalk. Even the ones that were donated were taken over by the City of Birmingham from inception and the donators had nothing further to do with them. Anyway the main thing is, what happens to these buildings now? Yes they are costly to maintain, but if they had been looked after properly from the outset they would not be in the condition they are now.


I use Birmingham and Solihull libraries frequently and I travel around the local libraries and I see no evidence of lack of use. Yes the types of usage may be different today, yes there is still the occasional one or two people sheltering from inclement weather but even this can be classed as a public service. That said in most of the ones I visit you have to book time on a computer or so I'm told, and how often do I ask for a book only to be told that it is out on loan. So enough people must be still using the libraries.

There are a couple questions that I would like to get answers to, if anybody knows.

Surely money must have been allocated in each financial year for building maintenance & repair, what happened to it?
Is there any data to show falling library visits, if so then why spend c£190 on a new one?
Has it been assessed how many people will travel to the new central library when their local library closes or will they just travel to the next nearest (until that closes)?
 
The estimated repair cost to Birmingham community libraries in Oct 2013 was £4 m. See this article:

https://birminghamagainstthecuts.wo...air-bill-for-birminghams-community-libraries/

And here are some figures on the cuts:

Birmingham’s community libraries were the subject of £2.1m of cuts in 2012-13, the cuts have led to staffing numbers being cut from 260 to 164 full-time-equivalent workers, a 37% reduction in paid library staff, the slashing of the opening hours of the Central and Community Libraries by 9.5% , and increasing the use of unpaid volunteers.

Be interesting to see if there is any data on current usage, projected usage and cost per user for local libraries and the Library of Birmingham. Viv.
 
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