• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

John Norton died Queen's Hospital, Birmingham, Warwickshire 1886

E

Elizabeth

Brummie babby
Query from Victoria, Australia. John Norton b. 1855 Burton upon Trent (my great-grandfather). I have the info. about his time spent Saltley Reformatory School 1870 til 1873. Same record shows he was employed Truman Harbury brewery B upon T. 1875. Married Mary Hannah Farmer 1878, B upon T. Census 1881 shows he lived Horninglow Road, Staffs. Certified copy of Death shows he died 13
April 1886 Queen's Hospital, Birmingham, Warwickshire from Sub-clavian aneurism operation haemorrhage. Married sister Emily Cotton was (in attendance?). There are no burial records for him at Stapenhill Cemetery, Staffs. which would possibly where he would have been buried had he died at his 1881 census address. I am thinking every possibility he was buried in a cemetery closest to where he died in Birmingham. Every possibility of the Weslyan persuasion. Having his burial information would just about bring an end to my family research. With many thanks ...... Lizzie
 
Hi Lizzie
If you post your query as a "lookup" including the exact date of death for John Norton I think someone on this forum has access to the Key Hill or Warstone Lane Cemeteries Index and could maybe check to see if the burial took place there. This is the Birmingham City Government Cemetery Link for further info about cemeteries.

https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cemeteries

Although this doesnt answer your query about a burial place for John Norton it may be of interest to your family history to know that he may have been in a Birmingham Hospital as a member of the Hospital Saturday Fund founded in 1873. Workmen were admited to the Queens Hospital as of right according to a book called Medicine - Charity and Mutual Aid by Anne Borsay and Peter Shapely which is available to read on Google books as a PDF. I think there is also a Queens Hospital in Burton Staffs too but am not sure.

The link below gives you information about a book about the Birmingham Hospital Saturday Fund and the Queens Hospital if it is of interest to your family history.

www.bhsf.co.uk/content/docs/company/BestOfHealth.pdf

Louisa

 
I would have thought the nearest cemetery would have been Lodge Hill at Weoley Castle in Birmingham
 
I know of burials at Warstone Lane from Queens Hospital, but there is also Key Hill which is almost next door to Warstone. Lodge Hill did not open until 1895 - but was owned by Kings Norton UDC, so until 1911 was not actually in Birmingham. Failing Warstone and Key Hill, Witton would be my next guess.
 
Thank you to the above three, especially Louise. I downloaded the Best of Health doc. Louisa and read firstly that part which was relevant to my query. As John worked B-o-T, Staffordshire and had only spent time as a kid in Saltley, I can't imagine he would be eligible for treatment in Queen's Hospital under the Hospital Saturday scheme which was peculiar to Birmingham residents (or so it seems) so maybe he was sent there for this operation or perhaps he was in the area when he suffered the aneurism. But, we'll never know. The cert. copy of d/c I obtained from the GRO definitely states death 13 April 1886, Queen's Hospital (USD?) certified ...? Bennett MRCS. Registered sub-district of St Thomas, Birmingham, County of Warwick a day after his death i.e. 14 April. Last night I nearly completed the form for a search to be undertaken for burial records at Witton but then decided to be patient and see what may come up through the forum. Also at 20 pounds a search (about $38) and seeing there is a possibility of 3/4 cemeteries where he may/may not be buried, well that also convinced me to bide my time. Another fact that also makes me believe he is buried in Birmingham is that his wife is buried with her second husband in Woodville (Gresley) Cemetery, Derbyshire where she moved from Burton upon Trent. But then again ......! You suggest I post this again under "Lookups". Do you mean just edit the title to include the word Lookup? and keep it on this forum ..... or on some other forum. I may be a bit thick tonight, the cold is getting to me. Thank you all again .... Lizzie
 
Hi Elizabeth,

For the moment don't worry about making a new post. I know that Key Hill Brian - the person who can help with Key Hill & Warstone Lane burial look ups has been unavailable for the last few days. I have alerted him that you are looking for a burial so hopefully he will answer you later today (Monday) or tomorrow. on this post.
I think the burials listed as the hospital burials are usually bodies that have been used by the students at the hospital or unidentified people that have died in hospital, however your relative may be still be buried in one of the cemeteries.
I am keeping my fingers crossed for you that he is.
polly
 
Last edited:
Hi Elizabeth

You mentioned nearly filling in a form for burial information from Witton. If Brian does not have the answer to your query, don't pay for a search at Witton, because you can get basic information, for one burial only, from Witton themselves via email. This will only give you section and grave number, not other information unfortunately. To have that information costs 11GBP.

I don't know if this is worth much, but in my experience, unless the family was fairly well off or had come into money, they were often not buried with their spouse - I would not take not being buried with their spouse as an indication of anything at all. They had quite different thoughts and habits to us today. One ancestor of mine, a manufacturing silversmith, lost his first wife after 30 years of marriage. He remarried and was seemingly devoted to his new wife, but when he died in 1921 he was buried with his first wife (she died 1886) and his second wife lies in Warstone Lane on her own.
 
Hi Lizzie,

Just back from a long wekend away and saw a message about your post. Wasn'r sure if Wendy has replied as I was away.
Have had a quick look and there are plenty of Nortons, quite a few John's, but none match your year in either Key Hill or Warstone lane.

I would try an email to the Witton [email protected] asking them if he is with them.

Fingers crossed
Brian
 
Thanks people .... once the ball starts rolling eh ........ logging off to email Witton and when I get a reply let you know immediately. Pollypops I don't think he was a hospital burial as his sister was "in attendance", which I presume means she was either there at the hospital or came shortly afterward so he's got to be somewhere. Anyway, first things first, Witton! Lizzie
 
Hi Elizabeth,
I didn't think he would be a hospital burial either but I was hoping his family may have decided to bury him in Key Hill or Warstone Lane so it was worth a try.
I hope he is at Witton - it would be lovely if you could find his place of burial. I hope you get a reply from Witton soon.
 
Hello BordesleyExile, pollypops, Louisa, Key Hill Brian. Just received a receipt from [email protected], so maybe by the end of the week. Louisa, Blanche Norton and I have common 3 x great-grandfathers. She has been in the fortunate position of being able to go to the U.K. many times to conduct research, although her research started some 30 years ago before the common use of computers for such, you know .... (maybe) ..... in the days of writing to the various authorities. She is aware of John's death in Warwickshire but understandably doesn't feel the need to go to any great effort to find his burial place. And BordeselyExile, I am going to use that picture of Queen's Hospital on John's profile on his Ancestry page. Thank you all, keep you posted. Lizzie.
 
No entry for John Norton in the General Registers held at Witton Cemetery. V. disappointing. Thanks folks ......... Lizzie.
 
Elizabeth said:
Hello BordesleyExile, pollypops, Louisa, Key Hill Brian. Just received a receipt from [email protected], so maybe by the end of the week. Louisa, Blanche Norton and I have common 3 x great-grandfathers. She has been in the fortunate position of being able to go to the U.K. many times to conduct research, although her research started some 30 years ago before the common use of computers for such, you know .... (maybe) ..... in the days of writing to the various authorities. She is aware of John's death in Warwickshire but understandably doesn't feel the need to go to any great effort to find his burial place. And Bordesely Exile, I am going to use that picture of Queen's Hospital on John's profile on his Ancestry page. Thank you all, keep you posted. Lizzie.
Click to expand...

Hello Liz, Lovely to find your post. I hope that you're getting somewhere with finding John's burial. Glad to find this forum as I've had major computer problems since we were last in contact and lost your email & snail mail addresses (tho' I'd had problems getting emails through before that).

Just one clarification - I have been fortunate to visit England a number of times but in fact have never had the opportunity to do any research while there as other family members were not interested and I couldn't get the time. (I twice had to walk past Lichfield Record Office, knowing that the majority of my family research was covered by records within its walls! It really hurt not to be able to go in there!!) The most I've been able to do when last in England, 16 years ago, is visit Stapenhill cemetery with my Norton 2nd cousin from Burton, looking for (and finding some) Norton family graves which we photographed.

All my research has been done consulting original records in LDS FH libraries here in NZ and in our National Library. Of course quite a bit on computer now that so much is online but I still use the LDS library a lot. Anyway, good luck with your search, Liz. Kind regards, Blanche
 
Apart from the civil cemeteries (Key Hill, Witton, etc), there are also church burials to consider. Both St Saviour's, Saltley, and St Margaret's, Ward End, for example have burials from all over Birmingham as well as their immediate vicinity, including burials from Queens Hospital. Sadly, John Norton is not recorded in either of these burial registers.
 
Lodge Hill was not open by then Sue, it was opened in 1895. Queen's Hospital was in Bath Row, so it could be John Norton was buried at St Thomas in Bath Row (closed 1914). Edgbaston might be worth a try, too.
 
Thanks Shortie, hadn't noted the date!!
Problem is there are so many places to try, luckily for me, our family were all easy ones.
Sue
 
I agree Sue, too many places to be honest! I have found a rule of thumb - if before 1870 you have a slightly better chance in a churchyard, after that, cemeteries largely took over. I know a lot of the cemetery opening and closing dates by heart now, and the churches are coming along nicely!

I am struggling to find three members of the same family, all died in Ruston Street, but I can't find them anywhere. Tried all cemeteries, all churches in the vicinity were closed by 1919 (when the first one died) and now I am well and truly stuck. I doubt if they would have been cremated, but that will have to be my next call I think. I wish mine had all been easy, some have, but by and large they have been difficult.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top