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John Matthews Aston 1866

S

StMatt

Sooz B
I am trying to trace my great grandfathers family in particular his early life and his parents. I was told that he was an orphan and went to a blue coat school, although I cannot verify this and he doesn’t appear on censuses until he is in his twenties. I know that he was a shoeing smith and on his marriage certificate it states his fathers name as Charles but I cannot find any more details on him or any information regarding his mother. Any help or advice would be appreciated.
 
i have moved this thread to the appropriate section of the forum...good luck with your research

lyn
 
There is a John Matthews on the 1881 census (although it says born in London) but the dob is abt 1867 and he is an inmate in the Aston Union Workhouse. This may be why he gives Aston as a place of birth later??
 

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Astoness said:
i have moved this thread to the appropriate section of the forum...good luck with your research

lyn
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Thank you
pjmburns said:
There is a John Matthews on the 1881 census (although it says born in London) but the dob is abt 1867 and he is an inmate in the Aston Union Workhouse. This may be why he gives Aston as a place of birth later??
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thank you for this. I have looked at this previously but cannot find a way to confirm that this is “our John” although it is a possibility.
 
There is also a birth registered in 1865 of a John Matthews in Birmingham. You would need the birth cert to be sure. You might have seen this though.
A search on GRO gives Mother's maiden name as Lees - not sure if this would help trace any other info before ordering.
 

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pjmburns said:
There is also a birth registered in 1865 of a John Matthews in Birmingham. You would need the birth cert to be sure. You might have seen this though.
A search on GRO gives Mother's maiden name as Lees - not sure if this would help trace any other info before ordering.
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I will have another look but I think we ruled both this one out because on later censuses John and his marriage certificate (to Bertha Harrison) suggest that he was born in 1866 and he has written that he was born in Aston, Birmingham but I will follow it up and see if it leads anywhere. We have gone round in circles during last winter trying to find more information on him. Thank you for your help.
 
I have found dob to be inaccurate that far back especially on censuses. I know the feeling of chasing my tail in a circle! !
 
on the 1901 census john has put where born as KN( not known) in the next house to them is the harrison family..could just be a coinsidence or could be his wife berthas rellies



lyn
 
just looking at the marriage cert for john and bertha and it suggests that johns father charlies is still alive but remember it is possible that if he was an orphan with no parents as he got older he could well have made up a fictitious father to save face..it happened a lot in those days...john may well have not even been born in birmingham at all.. always worth remembering that all we read is not always the truth as i found out when i was led a merry dance a couple of times :rolleyes:

lyn
 
someone has a tree on ancestry...info say john matthews b 1866 aston birmingham...mother elizabeth b 1842 no death date..father charles henry matthews b 1837 died 1881 which would fit in with the john matthews in the workhouse on the 1881 census... so need to find his death

lyn
 
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Assuming that his father actually is called Charles there is a John Matthews born in Ilshaw, Warwickshire with father Charles.

In 1871 he is in Bilston with parents and a sister, Harriet. None of them seem to appear on the 1881 census.

Harriet marries a Charles Yardley in 1892 and lists her father as Charles. They marry in Sparkbrook which means she was in the area.
 
think i have found john matthews parents but will need checking...i am going on what it says on johns marriage cert. which states his father is charles matthews occupation which is difficult to read but looks like excavation labourer...

on the 1861 census i think i found him in portsmouth

head charles henry matthews b 1837 born portsmouth occupation labourer excavation..again a tad difficult to read
wife elizabeth 20
son charles age 1

if this is the correct route i am going down then john had at least 1 sibling that being charles born abt 1860
 
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think ive found them on the 71 census but i now think the occupation of johns dad on his marr cert and that of the charles matthews on the 61could just a coinsidence as on the 71 for this family there is not a son named john matthews who would be aged 5 ish.... unless of course he is elsewhere

1871

head mary rees 55 lodging house keeper
daughter elizabeth matthews widow 29
son william 21
grandson charles11
grandson alfred 9
grandson george 6
 
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Can't seem to find a death for a Charles Henry Matthews in 1878 or 1881.

Charles Henry Matthws married Elizabeth Rees, he was dead by 1871. No John Rees b with mmn Rees.
 
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Astoness said:
thanks MWS..think i will start again tomorrow when the grey cells are more alert

lyn
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Thanks for the info. I can tell you that John Matthews died in 1920. He and Bertha had 6 children the eldest was Annie and the youngest was my grandfather Sidney Victor Matthews. I have tried Charles from Portsmouth and cannot be certain that this ties in. The post regarding Charles from Oldham I will look into and see if that helps and also the mmn lees as the same Christian name as johnsdaughter
 
Thank you all for your responses. I do appreciate the time you put in to help my search, unfortunately I cannot confirm any of them and some can definitely be ruled out. So I am trying another approach. I know that John Matthews married in St Mary’s church, Aston to Bertha Harrison in 1890. He died in 1920. I am wondering if he was baptised in St Mary’s, which I am hoping would show his birth parents. I understand the church was demolished a long time ago. If anyone can or would like to help solve this mystery I would be very grateful. Kind regards Sue
 
Going back to your previous post, John and Bertha appear to have had 8 children - 7 daughters and a son - with 2 more possibles that died young.

In regards the baptism, there only appears to be one between 1864 and 1868 for a John Matthews in Bham (online) and that is for a John William in 1868 and his father was Joseph. There are not many registrations in the area for a John Matthews around 1866, there is one in 1865 mmn Rees (prev. I think I said there wasn't) but he appears to die young.

If the John Matthews in the workhouse in 1881 (mentioned above) is your one then it probable he wasn't born in the area.
 
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Thank you for the info. Johns surviving son and youngest child was my grandad (Sidney Victor Matthews). The other 6 children were all girls. The eldest child who was a boy died young and one of the twin girls died at or before birth.

It is possible that John was not in Middlesexand moved to Aston but that tie in with his father Charles. John did go to a blue coat school in Aston but I cannot put the pieces together before 1881 regarding where he lived or who his mother was or whether he had any siblings. My grandad when John died and knew nothing about his fathers family apart from he was an “orphan” who went to a blue coat school and was going to be adopted by a well to do family but he was naughty and so they sent him back to the home.
 
Is it possible then that his name was changed to his adoptive parents' name and not changed back?

The twin probably would not have been registered if she was still born.

The daughters I have are - Annie Elizabeth 1891, Rose May 1895, Daisy Lilian 1896, Bertha 1898, Nellie Violet 1902, Doris Ivy 1903, Eveline Beatrice 1905 - all 7 living to at least 6.

John Henry Dec 1893 - 1893 possibly the son that died young.
 
You are spot on. They did live to adulthood and John Henry would have been the eldest child. The twin girl was not registered and I think it was stillborn. There wasn’t a record of her.
 
MWS said:
Is it possible then that his name was changed to his adoptive parents' name and not changed back?

The twin probably would not have been registered if she was still born.

The daughters I have are - Annie Elizabeth 1891, Rose May 1895, Daisy Lilian 1896, Bertha 1898, Nellie Violet 1902, Doris Ivy 1903, Eveline Beatrice 1905 - all 7 living to at least 6.

John Henry Dec 1893 - 1893 possibly the son that died young.
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I have asked this question about his surname and was told that the people who were to adopt him didn’t because he misbehaved and that his surname was never changed.

You are spot on. They did live to adulthood and John Henry would have been the eldest child. The twin girl was not registered and I think it was stillborn. There wasn’t a record of her.
 
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