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Help! John Pryse murdered

W

Wendy

Guest
I hope you can help me with this one. I went to the cemetery today to find and photograph a grave for one of our members. While I was there this memorial was pointed out to me. I thought it might be a good story to add to my files. I have taken several photo's of the gravestone as I didn't have time to write down the inscription. It states that John Pryse son of John Gwynn Pryse was murdered by a cowardly assasin. Any help would be great thanks.:)
Pryse_Grave_1.JPG
 
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Oh thank you so much Susanne that is brilliant your a star!!
 
on 12th july 1867 james scott was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to capital punishment but the sentence was unexpectedly commuted according to Hansard 1870
 
Another fascinating story from a memorial stone - and a very quick response from Suzanne and shera - well done!
Polly :)
 
Shera said:
on 12th july 1867 james scott was found guilty of murder and was sentenced to capital punishment but the sentence was unexpectedly commuted according to Hansard 1870
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Thanks Shera I wonder why the sentence was changed. A bit unusual for such a crime in those days.
 
Thanks for the trial info Susanne I could do with a week off to sort through all this fantastic!
 
i will quote from what i have read on the internet.

" in 1867 he (mr newdegate) mentioned the case of james scott, who shot his employer at birmingham, and having been tried and convicted was sentenced to capital punishment; the sentence was unexpectedly commuted, and a petition was presented signed by 3,000 persons, including ten magistrates, praying for an enquiry into the circumstances which had justified the secretary of state for the home department in respiting the prisoner, and afterwards commuting his sentence. he could not say that the reply of the then home secretary, the right hon. member for oxford university, mr gathorne hardy, had given satisfaction to the midland counties."

so people were not happy with the reprieve
 
I never expected all this amazing information it will be brilliant for the display and kept for the archive for everyone to see........many many thanks! xx
 
I may be a bit cynical, but was it usual to refer to where the seat of a minister was in news reports of that time ? I wonder if the paper was trying to insinuate that the home secretary was exerting influence on the sentence, perhaps because Mr Scott had been to university at oxford.
mike
 
mikejee said:
I may be a bit cynical, but was it usual to refer to where the seat of a minister was in news reports of that time ? I wonder if the paper was trying to insinuate that the home secretary was exerting influence on the sentence, perhaps because Mr Scott had been to university at oxford.
mike
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A very good point Mike I wonder. The power of the press!
 
Some information here from 20 years later when Scott was released from prison.

Amazing to see that for part of his sentence he was imprisoned at Gibraltar.

View attachment 50134

I know I read somewhere that despite the number of people who were hanged many death sentences were in fact commuted.

I wonder how all these thousands of signatures in Scott's defence were obtained. There must have been strong feelings in his favour.

T
 
This seems to get stranger with every bit of info found.
Wendy what a lot of info you now have for this grave - now you just need a picture
Polly
 
Thank you for that Tacitus. Yes it's always nice to have photo's of the people but we get very few.
 
mikejee said:
I may be a bit cynical, but was it usual to refer to where the seat of a minister was in news reports of that time ? I wonder if the paper was trying to insinuate that the home secretary was exerting influence on the sentence, perhaps because Mr Scott had been to university at oxford.
mike
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Who was James Scotts father? He is not mentioned because his mother was a widow. Could his father have gone to Oxford?
 
I bet it would surprise quite a few people that even back then a life sentence didn't actually mean life.

T
 
Wendy,off topic, but I know how you love Birmingham history of any kind.At the bottom of the newspaper article a little advert for a 'refreshing cup of coffee at Barrows Stores'.I had forgotten about Barrows ,doesn't that take you back?

Bring on the next headstone Wendy,the information on them is turning up some great stories. Alberta
 
Like me Alberta you love the history of Birmingham and it's people. This forum is a Birmingham History Forum so that's why I joined. I like the banter and softer side especially 'in the garden' as sometimes it jogs memories. I had no idea when I started doing this what would be found. The members who have helped and given information is fantastic and it will now be easier for the public to view. I often bring things about our history to the meet ups. The last one I bought two postcard albums which proved very popular.
I had forgotten about Barrows too this just shows how different subjects can bring other things of interest to light.
 
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Re-John Pryse, I used to go to a discount warehouse off Bordesley Green Rd and later in Aston it sold food, cleaning items and toys etc circa 1976?, the man who ran it was named Pryse a very pleasant man, i wonder if there is any family connection to John Pryse?. Len.
 
pollypops said:
Who was James Scotts father? He is not mentioned because his mother was a widow. Could his father have gone to Oxford?
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parents of james scott were charles and harriett scott. charles is a currier on the 1851 census and they were living stoke-on-trent. by 1861 charles scott had died and wife harriett was a housekeeper in new street, bham.
james scott (born newcastle) was 16 in 1861 and living pritchett st. working as a jewellers clerk. only 6 years later he was to murder john pryse.

in 1881 james was prisoner in H M convict prison, chatham, kent. there doesnt seem to be any connection to oxford.
 
lencops said:
Re-John Pryse, I used to go to a discount warehouse off Bordesley Green Rd and later in Aston it sold food, cleaning items and toys etc circa 1976?, the man who ran it was named Pryse a very pleasant man, i wonder if there is any family connection to John Pryse?. Len.
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I wonder if he was related especially as he had a buisness Len. It's an unusual spelling of Price I would think
 
Wendy
In 1867 there were three Pryses listed at private addresses in the directory, C Pryse at Green Bank cottage , Greet; John Pryse at 122 Ashted Row and L Pryse at Holly Bush , Yardley. Only firm was Pryse and Redman at 84 Aston St. They were possibly all related though. In 1972 there was only one private address in Kellys listed as Pryse. The 1955 electoral roll listed 4 , two of whom were a married couple. So you are right it wasn't a common name
Mike
 
what another great thread started by wendy...it has been like starting a book but being able to get to bottom of the mystery a lot quicker thanks to the wonderful info given by our members...

thanks to all...

lyn
 
mikejee, Pryse & Redman, 84 Aston St, strikes a bell, my memory thinks Pryse took a partner into the business named Redman. Len.
 
To Len & the others.
Apologies. I did my accidental trick again of putting 19 for 18 in the year. I have corrected it in the original now. It should have read " in 1867 there were three Pryses....)
 
Wendy this is so interesting - but I couldn't read the newspaper articles - does anyone know why John Pryse killed his boss??
Sheri
 
sheri, i think james scott was suspected of "cooking the books" , there was a discrepancy in the accounts. if you click a couple or more times on the newspaper clippings it becomes large enough to read.
 
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