Hats off to Witton cemetery!!!!

[les hancock]

Hats off to Witton Cemetary today, I cheekily sent them the details of my great grandmother and requested how I could locate the grave. Then 3 days later they sent me the section, the grave, private grave grant number and a map showing the location of the grave, So credit where credit is due, Thank you Witton Cemetary!!!! Oh by the way what is a private grave grant number??

 

[pollypops]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

I am not certain but I think when you buy a private plot you are granted the right to be buried there for a certain amount of years (possibly 75 ?) so I would imagine the grant number appears on the paperwork of the grant - if that makes sense (a bit like a policy number).

Perhaps someone else with knowledge of Witton Cemetery may be able to confirm this (or tell me I'm talking rubbish).

Well done to the staff at Witton - that really is a good service.

 

[sistersue61]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Pollypops and Les, that is what it is at Yardley and Oscott cemetrie, when a plot was purchased, you were "granted" that land for so many years, mom thinks that you could choose the time and that governed the cost of the grant,you were then issued a private grave grant and given a policy type document as your receipt/proof. Mom has one from her grandparents I think, if I can get it, will scan and post it on here for you, will be later in the week though!
Well done to the Witton staff for the info though, I am going to contact Yardley to see exactly where the grave is that we have the grant for, as we have the details I am hoping it will be easy.
Sue

 

[les hancock]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Gutted!!!! with details in hand I went to the cemetary today only to find that the grave has sunk along with 5 others and I cant actually tell which one is which. I assume that the stone has sunk also. bad,bad day

 

[Wendy]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Oh dear Les I am sorry to hear that. Are you sure there was a headstone as even on purchased graves they didn't always put a headstone on. I know it is very upsetting when you have your heart set on finding a grave with a lovely memorial. I know that feeling too. So sorry for your disapointment...x

 

[pollypops]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Sorry to hear of your disappointment Les. I went looking for grave at Brandwood end and had the same problem. Just as Wendy has said even though the grave had been purchased it had never had a headstone on it - just edging stones. Unfortunately there were quite a few graves in the same section that had been done in the same way and as most of the edging stones had sunk it was very difficult to be certain where the graves were. Did Witton send you a basic map showing the section where the grave was? If so they may have a more detailed plan/map in the office which shows where each plot number is.

 

[les hancock]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Thanks Wendy, Good point reguarding the stone, I just assumed there would be a stone, never even thought that there probably wasnt one in the first place. I did notice that all the graves that had sunk had urns(have I spelt that right?) in the middle of each of the plots. I am going to contact Witton again requarding my great grandad, But i suspect he will be buried in the same plot he died 30 yrs earlier. Still back to the drawing board and start again.

 

[les hancock]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Thanks Pollypops. went into the office today to get a copy of the map to confirm I had been checking the right section, But will go back and ask for a detailed plan

 

[pollypops]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

I will keep my fingers crossed for you Les - Key Hill Brian may know if a detailed plan exists.

 

[brenda barr]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Pollypops, l don't know about 75years for a private buriel plot..my g/grandparents and gg/grandparents are all together in one grave, my gg/grandparents died 1890 and 1895 every time l visit the uk l always visit the relies at witton cemetry .....the grave did'nt have a head stone but marked out by scalloped edging which had sunk so my brother and l dug them up and got them all aligned etc and planted bulbs and flowers, it was such a good feeling to do that, we were the only ones who cared enough ...they were all gone by the time we came on the scene being as they died so young...Brenda

 

[sistersue61]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Les, so sorry you were not able to identify the exact grave, maybe Pollypops idea of a more detailed plan will help.
Brenda, I will try to scan and post the Oscott grant I have,it details the length of time the plot is purchased for on it. Have only the envelope for the Yardley one, so not sure if there was a time on that, but if it ws 75 years, will be interesting to see what happens as great grandad died in 1945 - asssuming I will still be round then!!
Sue

 

[pollypops]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Hi Brenda, I think the most I've heard of is 100 years - but I am sure most cemeteries leave them longer if they don't need the grave to be reused. The Scalloped edging is exactly what was round the grave I found in Brandwood End - I think it must have been the standard way of marking graves. The grave I went to find was not my family - I was looking for it for someone else but I did exactly the same as you and dug up the sunken edging but unfortunately about half on them were missing. I didn't do too much as I could not be certain I had the right grave. Hopefully once the location has been confirmed we can return and do more to it. I have tidied up graves before and I couldn't agree more - it is a lovely feeling.

 

[brenda barr]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Sue it would be interesting to know if there is a time limit on the buriels....my other set of g/parents died in 1946 (within 10 days of each other) and are also buried in witton the grave does have a side stone but the grave has sunk really bad .... l was told it was to the water table....what i did find surprising my parents paid for constant cemetry care 1n 1946 and the last time l visited the grave the cemetry was still tending the grave...not bad for a 25pound fee in 1946....Brenda

 

[sarunte43]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Hi, to all
My 3x gr grandparents were Joseph and Maria Parkes, born about 1804 and both were buried at Witton in unmarked graves. They were button makers and ended their days at Dudley Road workhouse (hospital?) in 1873 and 1874.

Shirley

 

[geofred]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

I had just written a long message with details of the Grant I have in front of me for Witton Cemetery and when I posted it I had an error message - I was logged in but have had to log in again so, sorry, the lot vanished and I have not time to re do it. This grant was purchased by my Grandfather and was "granted unto him, his Heirs and Assigns for ever, the Exclusive Right of Burial in the said Cemetery, in the Parcel of Ground" - it then goes on to give the section and plot number. Sorry to be brief, good luck.

 

[sarunte43]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Re Time limit on graves...
I have the papers for my gr. grandparents plots at
Lodge Hill. It states in their case that they have the site "forever"...
shirley

 

[pollypops]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

That is reassuring to hear. I wonder if it may have changed over the years and newer graves were sold for a specified amount of time.
geofred - I have also lost posts in the past in just the same way as you did. Now when I sign in I select the keep me signed in option then even if I take a long time typing a post I don't lose it. When you have finished on the site you can select sign me out again.

 

[Neville Philpott]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

There is another potentially worrying aspect to the question of grave deeds.

My understanding is, although i hope i am wrong, that if for instance a headstone is deemed unsafe for example then you are liable for the cost of any

remedial works to make the stone safe. Has anyone else come across this?

 

[pollypops]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

I think you are probably right Neville although I doubt if they would know who the heirs were. In the past cemeteries have been known to put an announcement in the local press advising that graves/headstones are going to affected by repair work and asking for any relatives to come forward. I expect though that even if the heirs were known to the cemeteries they would still have to accept that the heirs may not want to pay or may not be able to pay for repairs and the stone would be laid down. When I paid to have one of my family headstones repaired in Key Hill I had to fill in a form to request permission to have the work done. I think on the form it said that in doing so I had agreed to take responsibility/ be the contact for the grave (or similar words) - I hope the work they did lasts!

 

[Wendy]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

I think if families don't or can't pay health and safety just lay the stone flat. When I first joined this site I went to look for a grave at Witton for a member living overseas. When I eventually found it I couldn't understand why the name was different. I went back to the office and was told that some time in the fourty's tons and tons of earth was put over this area and graves placed above. I don't know if the original graves were public ones but the ones above were private.
I think the grant's state how many years you own the grave for.

 

[Key Hill Brian]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

One section at Witton of unmarked graves had 12 feet of earth put on top. This allows thenm them to use the original 6 feet of 'top soil' and the bottom 6 ft of the new soil for more graves. Much better than digging the area up, clearing it and reusing it like Churchyards did!

Many older graves were sold "In perpetuity" - forever - but later they realised they would have no graves left to sell! The Council soon dropped to a 75 "Exclusive right of Burial" - but will not say nowadays what happens when that expires - It is a problem they are passing on to their successors! In thory - any unused spaces can than be resold. They are not allowed to bury bodies in the top 6 ft, but could use it for cremated remains in caskets - These can be buried as shallow as 1 ft below the ground.

All Cemeteries have detailed maps of the Sections. Ask which way the numbers run - try and find a grave with a number and count carefully.
The office should be able to tell you how many graves in and across from a specific corner - you just have to be careful when pacing it out. I have found a sunken kollow in Witton on the slope overlloking moor Lane - a relative of the wifes - paced it several times to check i had the right spot - Like many working class graves - it only had blue scalloped edging tiles which were barely visible - half an hour with a shovel working along them soon found most of them sunken - just lifted them and reset them at surface level shows the outline OK now. Still got a sunken centre - Need to take a barrow - they have plenty of spare soil at the cemetery if you ask - or if you like exercise - just take 2 buckets - good way to keep fit!

 

[Key Hill Brian]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!



This is most recent find at Witton - again scalloped edging stones barely visible - dug a shallow "V" either side of them and lifted them up a bit - spare soil went into sunken grave on left!

ps Grants are listed in a book - same as Burials - and each is numbered from 1 onwards - pre computer filing system - but still works - allows the cemeteries to keep their records in the big ledgers (as well as on computer these days - as a back up)

 

[sarunte43]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

when I inquired about my pauper 3 x gr. grandparents at Witton, I too received a map with the exact spot and number. Maybe this summer will make a trip to Witton and see if I can locate them.
shirley

 

[ColinB]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

On the deeds to my grand parents grave at Brandwood End Cemetery it states 75 years.

Brenda, there are graves at BEC that are maintained by the council, some graves have a plaque on them indicating this.

Colin

 

[les hancock]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Went back to the office at Witton today and asked for a more accurate map as I couldnt locate the grave. She said that they havent got detailed maps but what we will do is get someone to peg it out for you and give you a call when its done, Fantastic service or what!!!. She also mentioned that they supply the grave locations free of charge and only charge you if you want copy or copies from the registers

 

[pollypops]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

That's great news Les -Witton have been most helpful to you and I am sure you will feel much happier when you know exactly where the grave is.

 

[geofred]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Thank you Pollypops for the tip. I thought that I had done something wrong again. I am not 'computer minded' - I think my hard disc must be getting full!

 

[geofred]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

I found a grave of a great Aunt which was no more than a hole in the ground although the edging stones were just about visible. I had a chat with the ladies in the office at Witton and they arranged for it to be made level and the edging reset. As a thank you, I agreed to keep it planted up and tidy.
My Great Grandparents were buried in section 23 at Witton in 1894 and 1897 this has since been grassed over. geofred

 

[rosie]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Last year I supplied the details and Witton gave me a private grave number. I couldn't find anything (didn't expect a memorial). I went to the Office for more details or a peek at the plot map and I was told "It couldn't be simpler! Just find grave xxx on the corner and count". I'm fairly used to searching but I couldn't find xxx on a corner and neither could the groundsman who kindly helped even in the rain. I don't know if the paths were widened and he's underneath!! He's supposed to be plot 44, grave 22362, William Blakemore. His Father was buried in a public grave which was covered over, and re-sold, as Brian said.
rosie.

 

[pollypops]

Re: Hats off to Witton cemetary!!!!

Rosie I had a similar problem in Brandwood end - I didn't have any staff help (as they are not based there any more) but I knew the number of the grave I wanted to find. I couldn't find a headstone so I found some graves in the section with numbers on the kerbs but when I started trying to count the graves I could see some had sunk and I was unsure if there were some that completely sunk - especially by the path - so I didn't know if I was counting the right amount of graves. It is so frustrating this has happened to our cemeteries - graves don't sink or disappear over night it takes years - I don't know why more thought wasn't given to the problem as it was happening.
I was looking for a grave where someone was buried in the 1950's - so quite a recent one really.