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Frank Allen

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Robayne

New Member
Hi I'm new to this site and am looking for any information on the place my Great Grandfather says he was born: 2 Ashley Place, Bull Ring, Birmingham. He was born on 05OCT1870 or maybe 1872 (I have conflicting info on this). I got the address from the 1921 Census that he filled out.
His name (as we knew it) was Frank ALLEN, father named as John ALLEN (possibly a weaver) and his mother Mary E. ALLEN (I still don't know her maiden name) she was born around 1928 but I'm not sure where. He was very secretive but intimated that he was adopted - this might just mean that his Father died and Mother re-married changing their surname to ALLEN ... or is his Birth surname ALLEN? I just don't know!
Any help would be very greatly appreciated - I've been searching for Frank since I started my Family Tree way back in 1979 - the 1921 Census has just given me a better idea of where he was born and grew up.
Thanks in advance to everyone who takes the time to read this.
Alayne JONESID #12 Frank ALLEN Census 19JUN1921 v1.JPG
 
Jayell said:
Hi Shortie. Yes, my memories of the stairs up to the dancing at the Nineveh were that they were old as well! The photograph I posted was sent to me by a friend who also used to go to the Nineveh on Saturday nights. He was at school when he used to go there, as was I, but he became a teacher at William Murdochs (Rookery Road) School, and was there when there was a phone call one day during the lunch hour to say that a spectacular crash had happened at the top of Grove Lane. So he and a couple of other teachers drove up to see what had happened. A van had run into Broadmead's Television Shop (under Nineveh Dance Studios). He can't remember the date but thinks it was between 1961 and 1964. I wonder whether that crash destabilized the building and whether the building was then unfit to use? I must ask him. If so, it was a sad end to the place that held so many happy memories. Here is my membership card from 1953/54.

Judy

View attachment 86056View attachment 86057
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It might have been even after that as I went there in those years before I left school and do not remember a crash.
 
LooneyLin said:
Hi,

Do you have any more information about the terraces at right angles to Dawson Road please.
I was born in 1950 at 12,Ashley Place, Dawson Road and I'm trying to find out as much as I can about the area.

Many thanks
Lin
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Hello, I am desperately trying to find information on my Great Grandfather Frank ALLEN who was born at 2 Ashley Place (or possibly Ashleigh Place/Terrace) Handsworth around 1870 - 1872.

I cannot find this address in the 1871 Census (or 1861) but I have found it in 1881 & 1891.

So I guess my main question is: When were these houses built? The street was in the triangle between Baker Street & Dawson Road & Grove Lane. I believe the King Edward VI Handsworth Grammar School For Boys is now on this site.

Any help would be fantastic please.
Alayne
 
Robayne said:
Hello, I am desperately trying to find information on my Great Grandfather Frank ALLEN who was born at 2 Ashley Place (or possibly Ashleigh Place/Terrace) Handsworth around 1870 - 1872.

I cannot find this address in the 1871 Census (or 1861) but I have found it in 1881 & 1891.

So I guess my main question is: When were these houses built? The street was in the triangle between Baker Street & Dawson Road & Grove Lane. I believe the King Edward VI Handsworth Grammar School For Boys is now on this site.

Any help would be fantastic please.
Alayne
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This 1956 map shows Ashleigh Place between Baker St & Dawson Rd, previously sent to the forum by oldMohawk
I think Handsworth Grammar School opened in 1862.
Between 1886 & 1893 Grove Lane was still a narrow country lane.

ashleigh place map.jpg
 
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Thanks RobT. I already have a map of the area POST 1881 clearly showing Ashleigh Place.
I need to find out if these houses were there back in 1871 - for the Census, because I just can't find them in the Census and he says he was born there in 1872 (so not long after the 1871 Census).

Unless there is another Ashley Place (his spelling) somewhere else in Birmingham back in 1872?????

Any thoughts please?
 
I had not realised that Handsworth Grammar had joined the King Edwards Schools and changed its name in 2017. My late father went to Handsworth Grammar.
 
DavidGrain said:
I had not realised that Handsworth Grammar had joined the King Edwards Schools and changed its name in 2017. My late father went to Handsworth Grammar.
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I only found out fairly recently, I think it was because they wanted to remain a Grammar school so I guess they did some deal with King Edwards to be able to retain their independence.
 
Robayne said:
Thanks RobT. I already have a map of the area POST 1881 clearly showing Ashleigh Place.
I need to find out if these houses were there back in 1871 - for the Census, because I just can't find them in the Census and he says he was born there in 1872 (so not long after the 1871 Census).

Unless there is another Ashley Place (his spelling) somewhere else in Birmingham back in 1872?????

Any thoughts please?
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If you get his birth cert then it should tell you where he was born.
There is a Frank Allen born 1872 mmn Willis.
You could see if there is an Allen/Willis marriage first.
 
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Does the census say 2 Ashley Place Bull Ring Bham? Where does Handsworth come from?

If you search for Ashley Place in Bham newspapers in the 1870s there are at least 4 results. One Bristol Road near Wellington Road, another on Lennox St Lozells, a third opposite the mint in Hockley and the last Nechells Park Road. There were probably others.

None of those are particularly close to the Bull Ring, though Lennox St could be classed as Handsworth I suppose.
 
I think Handsworth came from the fact there was an Ashleigh Place in Handsworth.
I was puzzled by the use of "Bull ring".
 
the 21 census on post 1 certainly looks like it says where born...ashley place bull ring and i did notice that one of the sons occupation is market porter so that could tie in with the bull ring area...we could do with map of that area for the 1870s..as janice said if you get his birth cert that should tell you where he was born

lyn
 
The census records I found all point to London. On the 1921 census Frank's sons are London born.
I found John and Mary E on one census and that is London as well.
I notice there is a suggestion Frank might have bee adopted which makes a birth search tricky.
 
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Assuming that the dob given by the op (which is also on the 1939) then the Frank Allen/Willis registration would be in the wrong qtr. He appears to be the son of a Francis Allen, a carpenter, and a Mary Ann who subsequently married a William Price.

Not much to go on really.
 
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