I was shocked to hear to day that a British soldier was awarded the George cross. After the Soldier trod on a mine ( Surley one of most horrible things you can do ) he was prepared to lie down and let the device explode under neath him to prevent injury to his fellow comrades. I just wondered how brave you have to be to receive the Victoria Cross.
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Bravery awards
- Thread starter robert
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Ann B
Guest
As brave as that young Acock's Green man, I would say.
Ann
Ann
Alf
Gone but not forgotten. R.I.P.
Who are we fighting and who planted the Device if the answer is don't know why are we there? that is the question or am I missing something here.
George Cross, the highest award of the United Kingdom and other commonwealth countries which is awarded for civilian or non-operational bravery
George Cross, the highest award of the United Kingdom and other commonwealth countries which is awarded for civilian or non-operational bravery
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C
Catkin
Guest
What good is a medal, i think our armies should be equipt with the best of everything when they go to war, (arms is big business) and when they return home they should be looked after for the rest off their lives and if they don't come home then their immediate family should be looked after... My opinion...Cat
Lloyd
master brummie
Quite agree Cat. I won't get into a debate about whether or not we should be fighting in these countries at the moment, I do partially understand the USA's view that an amount of housekeeping is required on other people's doorsteps to keep the world generally safe, but I am disgusted with what I hear about the Gurkhas and their families not getting the support they deserve after fighting so gallantly and bravely in our support in the past.
B
Beryl M
Guest
When a military member, or soldier is killed, we try to make sure that a dignified funeral is held, with Pomp and Ceremony, perhaps even a Gun Salute - a Flag is slowly and ceremoniously Folded, and given to the surviving family. Repects are paid and we honour them. . .
Unfortunately in the States that is no longer entirely true. When many deceased war veterans return home today, news cameras can’t film their coffins, their funerals are very private - and it seems as if now they want to deny why they died. . .
And thousands of homeless and penniless veterans now laid to rest, in unmarked, pauper's graves and they are not honoured either. It is all very sad.
Unfortunately in the States that is no longer entirely true. When many deceased war veterans return home today, news cameras can’t film their coffins, their funerals are very private - and it seems as if now they want to deny why they died. . .
And thousands of homeless and penniless veterans now laid to rest, in unmarked, pauper's graves and they are not honoured either. It is all very sad.
Paul Higgins
master brummie
For information-
The George Cross is the civilian counterpart of the Victoria Cross and the highest gallantry award for civilians as well as for military personnel in actions which are not in the face of the enemy or for which purely military honours would not normally be granted.
The George Cross is awarded-
In recognition of "acts of the greatest heroism or of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme danger."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Cross
The Victoria Cross (VC) is the highest military decoration awarded for valour "in the face of the enemy" to members of the armed forces.
The Victoria Cross is awarded for-
“... most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross
As to the right and wrongs of war, whether we should engage in a particular conflict is eternally debatable and there will never be a satisfactory conclusion amongst free thinkers. There will always be those who say a war is necessary and those who say it is not. I like to think of myself as a pacifist, but if you knock me down rest assured I will get up and knock you down.
I satisfy (?) my own struggle with the morality of war thus-
A soldier that enlists must do so, even in peacetime, with the knowledge he may be called upon to fight. As a soldier he should not be concerned with the morality of war. Taking ‘the Kings Shilling’ presupposes his (or her) willingness to obey without question.
I end thus- whatever our scruples, our wish for peace the brave men and women who are prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice to keep us safe must enjoy our support. They must expect, as previously suggested, to enjoy above all of us the benefits of peacetime or to at least expect that if they do not come home, those they leave behind shall enjoy those benefits. Sadly, this is often not the case.
The George Cross is the civilian counterpart of the Victoria Cross and the highest gallantry award for civilians as well as for military personnel in actions which are not in the face of the enemy or for which purely military honours would not normally be granted.
The George Cross is awarded-
In recognition of "acts of the greatest heroism or of the most conspicuous courage in circumstances of extreme danger."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Cross
The Victoria Cross (VC) is the highest military decoration awarded for valour "in the face of the enemy" to members of the armed forces.
The Victoria Cross is awarded for-
“... most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Cross
As to the right and wrongs of war, whether we should engage in a particular conflict is eternally debatable and there will never be a satisfactory conclusion amongst free thinkers. There will always be those who say a war is necessary and those who say it is not. I like to think of myself as a pacifist, but if you knock me down rest assured I will get up and knock you down.
I satisfy (?) my own struggle with the morality of war thus-
A soldier that enlists must do so, even in peacetime, with the knowledge he may be called upon to fight. As a soldier he should not be concerned with the morality of war. Taking ‘the Kings Shilling’ presupposes his (or her) willingness to obey without question.
I end thus- whatever our scruples, our wish for peace the brave men and women who are prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice to keep us safe must enjoy our support. They must expect, as previously suggested, to enjoy above all of us the benefits of peacetime or to at least expect that if they do not come home, those they leave behind shall enjoy those benefits. Sadly, this is often not the case.
The only news we get from Afghanistan & Iraq is when one of our lad's dies,it is a pity that they are not fully equipped with all the gear that they need,also they are too over stressed in so much that we have not enough troops to cover the ground these vehicles they ride around in are not armoured just tin can's
B
Beryl M
Guest
Paul and Dennis i enjolyued reading your posts. .
Morality of War.
To my mind there are three kinds of war Aggressive, Preventative and Defensive. . Aggre4ssive is an outrage.A nation shouldn’t resort to force just because they suspect or fear an enemy attack – they must actually be attacked or have clear evidence of an imminent attack…
On the other hand, a defensive war to repress injustice and to preserve national security and freedom is morally admissible both in principle and fact. To violate this right would defy human nature itself. Defense against any unjust aggressions is justified..
However, when I say this every peaceful method must have been sincerely tried and proved inadequate there must be a probability of success.
War should be the last resort because of the manifold agony. Therefore the use of force must be limited and controlled . . . When force escapes the control of man its use should be rejected as immoral. . . Nuclear is no longer a defense against injustice, but of annihilation. pure and simple of human life within the radios of the action. . .
Morality of War.
To my mind there are three kinds of war Aggressive, Preventative and Defensive. . Aggre4ssive is an outrage.A nation shouldn’t resort to force just because they suspect or fear an enemy attack – they must actually be attacked or have clear evidence of an imminent attack…
On the other hand, a defensive war to repress injustice and to preserve national security and freedom is morally admissible both in principle and fact. To violate this right would defy human nature itself. Defense against any unjust aggressions is justified..
However, when I say this every peaceful method must have been sincerely tried and proved inadequate there must be a probability of success.
War should be the last resort because of the manifold agony. Therefore the use of force must be limited and controlled . . . When force escapes the control of man its use should be rejected as immoral. . . Nuclear is no longer a defense against injustice, but of annihilation. pure and simple of human life within the radios of the action. . .
Coming back to what I was saying,
During WW2 we had AVRE flailtanks these were
equipped with revolving chains,that would safely explode
any mines in front of the vehicle. Also could not be our canine friends
be trained to go in frontof our tin cars,and sniff out any mine layed?
Then dealt with by our R.E.sappers ?
During WW2 we had AVRE flailtanks these were
equipped with revolving chains,that would safely explode
any mines in front of the vehicle. Also could not be our canine friends
be trained to go in frontof our tin cars,and sniff out any mine layed?
Then dealt with by our R.E.sappers ?
Bernard67Arnold
master brummie
I. have been trying to figure out what the Americans are doing there, I dont think there any oil there is there??? Bernard
chocks2
master brummie
Somebody (I can't remember who) said that this would be Britains Vietnam and boy are they being proved right. We are in a country that has never been taken. Hostile terrain, inhospitable weather and no visable enemy. Our troops are inadequately equiped and the popularity of this war in both the UK and the USA is very low.
Depending on who is asked in the government, you get a different reason for us being there. I also think that we are in too deep now to withdraw with any ease. All we can do is pray for our troops and support them in every way that we possibly can. GOD BLESS THEM ONE AND ALL!
Depending on who is asked in the government, you get a different reason for us being there. I also think that we are in too deep now to withdraw with any ease. All we can do is pray for our troops and support them in every way that we possibly can. GOD BLESS THEM ONE AND ALL!
Alf
Gone but not forgotten. R.I.P.
Bernard the Americans went there after 9/11 that was their reasoning.
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Lloyd
master brummie
Don't assume that the things said about American selfishness are all true - they are there to try to reduce the risk of terrorism anywhere in the western world. That's why our soldiers are there, and those from other NATO countries too. We have to cover each others' backs as well as our own, if there is ever a WW3 against these radical fanatics it will be fought in the civilian ranks here in our towns and cities, either by mass suicide terrorist attacks or germ or nuclear bombs. Those who are our worst threats now don't have 'rules of war' or are party to the Geneva conventions and won't fight 'like gentlemen' as we do (usually). Watch the news and see, they even kill their own countrymen if they happen to be near the targets of their attack and believe that to die is the greatest glory. There is no antidote to this sickness or defence against their methods of warfare, the perpetrators of it must be contained and suppressed on their own ground, once on ours there would be no stopping them.
I am sure everyone on this site supports our Armed Forces 100% they are simply awesum.
Considering the disgracefull way they are kept short of finances and equipment by our appauling Politicians (and they are all as bad) they always produce the results and as we are seeing to often lately, they make the ultimate sacrifice for all of us.
I am not sure that the war in Afghanistsn is at all straight forward, I was listening to a so called "expert" the other day on radio 4 who said that the reasoning for the war was not correct as most of these terrorist camps have simply moved to Pakistan and our presence in Afghanistsn does nothing to stop the terrorist plots.
I think we all must form our own oppinions about who is right but continue to give our soldier our whole hearted support.
Considering the disgracefull way they are kept short of finances and equipment by our appauling Politicians (and they are all as bad) they always produce the results and as we are seeing to often lately, they make the ultimate sacrifice for all of us.
I am not sure that the war in Afghanistsn is at all straight forward, I was listening to a so called "expert" the other day on radio 4 who said that the reasoning for the war was not correct as most of these terrorist camps have simply moved to Pakistan and our presence in Afghanistsn does nothing to stop the terrorist plots.
I think we all must form our own oppinions about who is right but continue to give our soldier our whole hearted support.
We may not agree with the war in Afghanistan/Iraq or understand why, but I support our troops and what they have to put up with, and not forgetting all the other troops of other nations who add their support.
Did anyone see the programme last week on Plot 60 at Arlington Cemetery where the USA troops are buried. Row upon row of headstones, and as soon as they were burying one, another grave was being opened. So sad to hear the stories from the families.
Keep them all safe, and remember those who die, and give support to those who come back so badly wounded in both body and mind.
Did anyone see the programme last week on Plot 60 at Arlington Cemetery where the USA troops are buried. Row upon row of headstones, and as soon as they were burying one, another grave was being opened. So sad to hear the stories from the families.
Keep them all safe, and remember those who die, and give support to those who come back so badly wounded in both body and mind.
That is not the view of the Ministry of Defence, although it does not publicise it.
Any member of any rank of any of the UK Armed Forces, regular and reserve, has the right to apply for a discharge on the grounds of having, since enlistment or being commisioned, developed a conscientious objection to remaining in the armed forces. Since British participation in the present conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq began, at least four personnel have been discharged on such grounds. (MoD evidence to the House of Commons Select Committee on the Armed Forces Bill 2006)
Paul Higgins
master brummie
I stand corrected.
Brian Powell
master brummie
Afghanistan was first entered in an attempt, by the then coalition of the USA and the UK, to capture or kill Osama bin Laden and the other leaders of Al Qeada. This group were gone after because they openly claimed that they were responsible for the attacks that had happened in Europe and 9/11 in the USA although there is now som doubt about their ability to have carried out the 9/11 attack.
Once the joint armies of the USA and the UK entered Afghanistan in the hunt for bin Laden, he and his followers left Afghan soil and relocated in Pakistan. The reason then adopted for staying on Afghani soil became to change the ruling regime, the Taliban, an illegal reason in the eyes of the International Courts.
The trouble with western politicians is, that they do not have the cajones big enough to fight such a war, in a way that would give our forces an even chance of winning. They are too afraid of what the liberal press might say about them and not interested enough in the safety of our armed forces.
This is the very reason that the USA lost the Vietnam conflict. Nixon did have the cajones big enough to start winning but, once the peaceniks started crying and criticising him in the newspapers he wasn't brave enough to carry on and win.
Bernard67Arnold
master brummie
I really do not want this debate again for obvious reasons, may I suggest that you read a bulletin on The World
Affairs Board called "The Soviet Victory That Never Was" byNikolas K Gvosdev who is Professor of National Security
at the Navel War College, bye Bernard
Affairs Board called "The Soviet Victory That Never Was" byNikolas K Gvosdev who is Professor of National Security
at the Navel War College, bye Bernard
Brian Powell
master brummie
Bernard, I never intended to get into a debate, you asked a question and I gave you an answer, simple really and by the way nothing to do with the Soviet attempt to 'conquer' Afghanistan.
Bernard67Arnold
master brummie
Hi Brian, I did ask the question, but that was a year ago, a lot of our lads have been bought to Brize Norton since then,
including some of my old regiment who recently spent six months in the place. My opinon has not changed, we have
no right whatsoever to be there, and as General Mike Rose said "Its an unwinnable war", We should learn from history
but seldom do. I was warned at the time that the topic was getting too political which was why the thread was closed, Bernard
including some of my old regiment who recently spent six months in the place. My opinon has not changed, we have
no right whatsoever to be there, and as General Mike Rose said "Its an unwinnable war", We should learn from history
but seldom do. I was warned at the time that the topic was getting too political which was why the thread was closed, Bernard
Brian Powell
master brummie
Sorry Bernard I should have checked the date on the thread but I haven't been a member for long and I tend to forget. It's probably a good thing the thread closed because I have strong views on Afghanistan too. Anyway the best of luck my friend, take care.
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