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Archaeology: Digbeth - Jacobite Arsenal

Lady Penelope

Lady Penelope

master brummie
Been reading on Birmingham Live about the weapons which are supposed to be buried in Digbeth, possibly under the Park Street / High Street area. Apparently they are hoping to uncover them during the extensive excavation work taking place in this area over the next few years. Supposedly they were made to support the Jacobite cause but when this was lost the arms were buried and haven't yet been discovered. I haven't seen any other reports. Does anyone have confirmation of this please?
 
ive heard nothing pen but wouldnt it be great if the arms were found....how exciting

lyn
 
I too really hope evidence is found. And who knows what else it might turn up. Well worth keeping an eye on this. Viv.
 
viv i will see what i can find out from mike hodder he may know something about this

lyn
 
just read that info pen...very interesting....i have always said we never know what history lies beneath us...i am convinced that they may find something in and around the fox and grapes area and beyond with a bit of luck:)

lyn
 
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Are there any records anywhere around the 1740s that show Birmingham sword makers ? Trade cards perhaps ? Any lists anywhere we know of ? If we can find someone with the initials T.S who was a sword maker and where he manufactured them, we might get close to where the stash has been buried. Given that the number of swords is allegedly substantial, it must be a sword maker of note and size. I know, it's a tall order, but you never know. And we're always up for a challenge aren't we ? ! Viv.
 
wow viv thats a big ask lol.....but what a find that would be.....to be fair i dont know where to start on this one but will have a go later on..:)
 
Been reading a thread from 2008 on sword cutlers started by Mark Cloke. He mentions a lot of sword makers. I wonder if he's still around? I'll re-read the thread later and then I'll try his email.
 
If swords were being made in Digbeth, would there have been a mill(s), possibly former water mill(s) as some were converted in the 18th century (eg in Perry Barr) to meet demand for armaments ? Or would they have been made by blacksmiths ? We know from historical records that Digbeth had many blacksmiths working in that area. Sorry if this all sounds niaive but I know very little about swords and cutlers. Viv.
 
The first mill that comes to mind is Cooper's but this is a little further away from the Park St area.

I found a few on line too - W & S Dawes (I remember there was also a Samuel but I think this was far later than the 18th C).
Thomas Gill - I believe he was in the Masshouse area. Company later run by his widow.
Also J Turner and J & C Woolley, I think his name was James - this last name appears frequently in connection with swords.
I've written to Mark Cloke and it hasn't bounced back so fingers crossed!
 
According to this extract from the Birmingham Post October 1943 claims a chest of basket-hilted swords was intercepted when it was secretly sent from Birmingham. Perhaps those that are buried are similar ie basket hilted ? If so I think that their manufacture probably involved fairly skilled craftsmanship. Also we learn from this how very risky the business of "T.S" was. Viv.
 

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Here's how the seizing of the 20 chests of swords was reported in October 1745 (Stamford Mercury). The Snowhill referred to in the article is the London Snowhill. The chests of swords ended up at the Tower of London. Sounds ominous for the Birmingham sword maker as he'd most likely suffer the same fate as the swords. Perhaps this "maker of the arms" was our "T.S". If so, we know he did a runner ! Viv.

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I've done a trawl through the National Archives for sword makers and cutlers but the only TS who came up was in business in 1608. His name was Thomas Som(a)land, Stocklande, Bordesley.
 
There is no doubt that Birmingham was a major sword making town back in the day. However any blade mill would have to be at the side of a river and we have the Rea in that area. Had it not been for the reports of the find in London with the evidence of manufacture in Birmingham, I would have had doubts about the authenticity of this story.
 
I can understand your scepticism David as I was quite doubtful at first. However, I'm really interested in this area of Birmingham so I'm keeping my eye on developments.

I've found Linda Moffat's excellent site for the Skidmore / Scudamore family which starts with Thomas Scudamore, hardwareman and cutler of Bordesley, but unfortunately he wasn't born until the 1750's, so back to the drawing board I'm afraid.
 
Hi Lady P. Me too, very interested in this. Wonder if his father was a Thomas Scudamore/Skidmore too ? Viv.
 
i dont know were to post this, so i put it here, if itsthe wrong place move it please.

sword making in brum

Sword Makers in Birmingham - Revolutionary Players

Five sword cutlers and manufacturers are named on a ribbon, which issues from the trumpet of an armed and helmeted cherub. Several emblems of war are presented. As well as swords, the devices include spears, axes, shields, flags, a bayonet and a sheath of arrows. The lion and unicorn are...
www.revolutionaryplayers.org.uk www.revolutionaryplayers.org.uk
 
mw0njm. said:
i dont know were to post this, so i put it here, if itsthe wrong place move it please.

sword making in brum

Sword Makers in Birmingham - Revolutionary Players

Five sword cutlers and manufacturers are named on a ribbon, which issues from the trumpet of an armed and helmeted cherub. Several emblems of war are presented. As well as swords, the devices include spears, axes, shields, flags, a bayonet and a sheath of arrows. The lion and unicorn are...
www.revolutionaryplayers.org.uk www.revolutionaryplayers.org.uk
Click to expand...
My late cousin was an avid collector of military memorabilia I don't know what his family will do with it but he had a Polish Cavalry sword over the fireplace.
 
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