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Any information welcomed

DavidBeckett

DavidBeckett

proper brummie kid
** unsure if this belongs here or in the Blitz thread but thought I'd start here **
I have been browsing through the BHF site for a while now, but I'm not making much progress on a couple of questions I have. I hope someone may be able to help out with some suggestions/directional guidance. The back story:
  • I am Canadian, born of a British mother and a Canadian father (soldier in WWII); they married near the end of WWII in the Selsey area.
  • At the start of the war my mother was in training to become a nurse.
    • She is listed in the 1939 Register (when she would have been 19 or 20) as "Hospital Nurse Probation" with an address of Yardley Green Road.
  • According to a short write-up she left us, she and a friend were caught in an air raid which I believe occurred 1940 11 22.
    • that seems supported by records on BARRA.
In Mom's write-up, she said she and her friend had gone to an early show and when leaving to catch a bus back to the hospital were caught in an air raid which had just started up (approx 6:30 PM). As it turned out Mom was severely injured (lost her right leg), and her friend was killed. What I am trying to do is track down where she actually was when the raid occurred and to figure out where she was working at this time or, if she was still in training, where she was based.

The only clues I really have from her record of events/write-up is where she mentions:
  • the show as being "Earl Williams-Tower Room?", and
  • the bomb which caught her and her friend was somewhere close to Coventry Road.
I have searched BARRA but the mentions I could find there are light on detail:
  • Mom is simply referred to as "Bolton" (her maiden name), and specifies an address as Isolation Hospital, Little Bromwich.
    • I'm trying to figure out if this is the same hospital as listed in the 1939 Register (Yardley Green Road?) or if it is the hospital on Wagon Lane.
  • The sole other nurse listed in this raid is Mary Dorothy Felix so I'm assuming this was Mom's friend.
    • She is listed as killed that night.
    • Her address is listed as Selly Oak Hospital, so perhaps Mom and her friend had trained together and were off to work in different hospitals?
I think I can figure out the hospitals by going through the posts in the Hospitals forum, but I really am curious as to what exactly the Tower Room is/was. Perhaps linked to the former Tower Ballroom building or could it be something else?

Any hints/thoughts/suggestions would be most welcome as I will be in Birmingham at the end of April for a conference and would like to try and see the places mentioned during an "off day".
 
hi david very interesting..could we please have your moms full name and dob please ? it may help us as we do like to help out with brick walls especially when our members have go themselves...i have just looked in my book which lists all civilians who died during the air raids and mary dororthy felix age 20 is listed and her name is on the tree of life memorial situated in the city centre...you probably know this but when you go on the BARRA site if you click on VIEW it gives more details in marys case it says this (see quote below ).so was the hospital hit or did she just die there i am a tad unclear on that it also gives additional info such as who marys parents were and where they lived also details about the raid


Mary Dorothy Felix was killed on the 22 November 1940 at Selly Oak Hospital. Mary was 20 years of age when this happened.

lyn
 
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I'd be confident in saying that the hospital is the one on Yardley Green Road which is in Bordesley/Little Bromwich. It has gone through a number of name changes and on the 1950 map is listed as Little Bromwich Hospital...

0 - Little Bromwich.jpg

...it is now known as Heartlands Hospital and has been redeveloped so not sure if there is anything recognisable from the 1940s.
 
On the 1939 register Mary Felix's address is listed as City Hospital, Yardley Green Road. On the CWGC it says she died at Selly Oak Hospital, so possibly a little confusion between the two.
 
Hello Lyn...thanks for the prompt response - that is appreciated!

Mom's maiden name was Patricia Constance Bolton and she was born 30 May, 1920 in Canada to a Canadian father and an English mother.
The family moved from Canada to the UK in 1932 and stayed on there until the end of WWII.
 
MWS said:
I'd be confident in saying that the hospital is the one on Yardley Green Road which is in Bordesley/Little Bromwich. It has gone through a number of name changes and on the 1950 map is listed as Little Bromwich Hospital...

View attachment 190349

...it is now known as Heartlands Hospital and has been redeveloped so not sure if there is anything recognisable from the 1940s.
Click to expand...
That is the impression I had formed after trying to track the hospitals in that thread...multiple name changes and (sometimes) referring the hospital by it's location or it's specialty rather than it's actual name makes the task a wee bit challenging!
 
MWS said:
On the 1939 register Mary Felix's address is listed as City Hospital, Yardley Green Road. On the CWGC it says she died at Selly Oak Hospital, so possibly a little confusion between the two.
Click to expand...
This is in line with what I was thinking...that both of them had been at City Hospital/Yardley Green during their probationary periods and then moved on to other hospitals, either as full fledged nurses or to continue their training in a specialism.

I suspect the Selly Oak reference (which is the same as in the BARRA listing) was her current residence.
 
DavidBeckett said:
Hello Lyn...thanks for the prompt response - that is appreciated!

Mom's maiden name was Patricia Constance Bolton and she was born 30 May, 1920 in Canada to a Canadian father and an English mother.
The family moved from Canada to the UK in 1932 and stayed on there until the end of WWII.
Click to expand...
david as i said earlier if you click on VIEW on the BARRA site it gives extra info reading this it seems to me that your mom was at the hospital when it was hit...

Bolton was injured on the 22 November 1940 at Isolation Hospital, Little Bromwich. We have no records to confirm this was a fatal injury.
 
Astoness said:
hi david very interesting..could we please have your moms full name and dob please ? it may help us as we do like to help out with brick walls especially when our members have go themselves...i have just looked in my book which lists all civilians who died during the air raids and mary dororthy felix age 20 is listed and her name is on the tree of life memorial situated in the city centre...you probably know this but when you go on the BARRA site if you click on VIEW it gives more details in marys case it says this (see quote below ).so was the hospital hit or did she just die there i am a tad unclear on that it also gives additional info such as who marys parents were and where they lived also details about the raid


Mary Dorothy Felix was killed on the 22 November 1940 at Selly Oak Hospital. Mary was 20 years of age when this happened.

lyn
Click to expand...
Hello Lyn...thanks for the prompt response - that is appreciated!

Mom's maiden name was Patricia Constance Bolton and she was born 30 May, 1920 in Canada to a Canadian father and an English mother.
The family moved from Canada to the UK in 1932 and stayed on there until the end of WWII.
Astoness said:
david as i said earlier if you click on VIEW on the BARRA site it gives extra info reading this it seems to me that your mom was at the hospital when it was hit...

Bolton was injured on the 22 November 1940 at Isolation Hospital, Little Bromwich. We have no records to confirm this was a fatal injury.
Click to expand...
Hi again Lyn
I was hoping the BARRA site could offer more information than it actually does. The first line does seem to be specific to the casualty but the vast majority of what is presented through the VIEW option seems to be a repeat of the police raid report summarizing the events of the incident that day (or evening)...so not specific to the victim. And given the way the BARRA pages presented the address for my mother (as she was out that evening) I was assuming that the address was not where the incident took place but rather their place of residence. I don't know for sure but the first entry in the VIEW section always seems to be a hospital so I again assume (I know, I know) that indicates where the victims were taken. It does make sense then that in Ms. Felix's as she dies on-site BARRA presents her parents address but no hospital entry.

And by the way, I am in awe of this site for the sheer breadth of knowledge and the helpful folks on the site -and- of the BARRA site - what a huge & searchable trove of information!
 
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DavidBeckett said:
Hello Lyn...thanks for the prompt response - that is appreciated!

Mom's maiden name was Patricia Constance Bolton and she was born 30 May, 1920 in Canada to a Canadian father and an English mother.
The family moved from Canada to the UK in 1932 and stayed on there until the end of WWII.

Hi again Lyn
I was hoping the BARRA site could offer more information than it actually does. The first line does seem to be specific to the casualty but the vast majority of what is presented through the VIEW option seems to be a repeat of the police raid report summarizing the events of the incident that day (or evening)...so not specific to the victim. And given the way the BARRA pages presented the address for my mother (as she was out that evening) I was assuming that the address was not where the incident took place but rather their place of residence. I don't know for sure but the first entry in the VIEW section always seems to be a hospital so I again assume (I know, I know) that indicates where the victims were taken. It does make sense then that in Ms. Felix's as she dies on-site BARRA presents her parents address but no hospital entry.

And by the way, I am in awe of this site for the sheer breadth of knowledge and the helpful folks on the site -and- of the BARRA site - what a huge & searchable trove of information!
Click to expand...
hi david happy to help...the only other thing i can think of and its a gamble and that is to obtain your moms friend marys death certificate just in case it gives any further information as to the exact location of the air raid which could have been anywhere

lyn
 
A bit laborious but you could plot the deaths close to Coventry Road on a map to give a general idea of where the bombs fell and see where they were in relationship to Yardley Green Road which is not that far away.
 
Astoness said:
hi david happy to help...the only other thing i can think of and its a gamble and that is to obtain your moms friend marys death certificate just in case it gives any further information as to the exact location of the air raid which could have been anywhere

lyn
Click to expand...
Hi Lyn...I was thinking that if I could find out more about the "Tower Room" that Mom mentioned that would narrow it down quite a bit.
She said they were at a show and specified " Earl Williams-Tower Room? ". Assuming Earl Williams was a performer and the Tower Room the venue...where would that Tower Room be?

If it was the Tower Ballroom, that has been demolished hasn't it? If it WASN'T the Tower Ballroom, does anyone know of it? Mom said they had left the show and were walking to catch a bus when the bomb(s) landed on/near Coventry Road...but Coventry Road doesn't appear to go anywhere near the site where Tower Ballroom was.

Sure wish I had thought to ask a few more questions while she was still here to answer them!
 
MWS said:
I'd be confident in saying that the hospital is the one on Yardley Green Road which is in Bordesley/Little Bromwich. It has gone through a number of name changes and on the 1950 map is listed as Little Bromwich Hospital...

View attachment 190349

...it is now known as Heartlands Hospital and has been redeveloped so not sure if there is anything recognisable from the 1940s.
Click to expand...
Thanks for this!
 
DavidBeckett said:
Hi Lyn...I was thinking that if I could find out more about the "Tower Room" that Mom mentioned that would narrow it down quite a bit.
She said they were at a show and specified " Earl Williams-Tower Room? ". Assuming Earl Williams was a performer and the Tower Room the venue...where would that Tower Room be?

If it was the Tower Ballroom, that has been demolished hasn't it? If it WASN'T the Tower Ballroom, does anyone know of it? Mom said they had left the show and were walking to catch a bus when the bomb(s) landed on/near Coventry Road...but Coventry Road doesn't appear to go anywhere near the site where Tower Ballroom was.

Sure wish I had thought to ask a few more questions while she was still here to answer them!...
Click to expand...

david i bet there is not one of us who does not wish we had asked more when we could but when we were younger most of us are getting on with life and didnt give much of a thought to our family history..i agree your mom could be referring to the tower ballroom...could be an idea as you say to check out the name earl williams..maybe the online newspapers could have something

lyn
 
Here's a stretch, in the Cary Grant film His Girl Friday there was a character called Earl Williams. It was released in 1940 and was playing in Birmingham in Nov 1940.
 
MWS said:
Here's a stretch, in the Cary Grant film His Girl Friday there was a character called Earl Williams. It was released in 1940 and was playing in Birmingham in Nov 1940.
Click to expand...
mark i wonder if it was showing at the hipp in hurst st...didnt that building have a tower on it...only guess work mind

lyn
 
As far as I can see the cinemas showing that film then were in Sutton Coldfield or The Olton, in Warwick Road.
 
Astoness said:
mark i wonder if it was showing at the hipp in hurst st...didnt that building have a tower on it...only guess work mind

lyn
Click to expand...
mikejee said:
As far as I can see the cinemas showing that film then were in Sutton Coldfield or The Olton, in Warwick Road.
Click to expand...
Would they be within walking distance of Coventry Road?

And BTW - how did you track that down - are there newspaper archives from that period available online somewhere>
 
A lot of bombing raids were either not reported or reported in vague terms - a "midland town" or "industrial premises" with no names.

Newpapers online here (but not all Birmingham papers are online for 1940s).

Home | Search the archive | British Newspaper Archive

Whether you are a researcher, historian or you simply want to know more about Britain's history, take this fantastic opportunity to search The British Newspaper Archive - a vast treasure trove of historical newspapers from your own home.
www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk

search for free but subscribe to read.
 
MWS said:
I'd be confident in saying that the hospital is the one on Yardley Green Road which is in Bordesley/Little Bromwich. It has gone through a number of name changes and on the 1950 map is listed as Little Bromwich Hospital...

View attachment 190349

...it is now known as Heartlands Hospital and has been redeveloped so not sure if there is anything recognisable from the 1940s.
Click to expand...

I don't know if this is any help but I lived in the area in the 70s. The main hospital was called East Birmingham Hospital and this was accessed from Bordesley Green East. The site of the hospital spanned a large area which went right down to Yardley Green Road. In fact this is where the Nurses Homes were, and I believe the buildings are still there.
On the other side of Yardley Green Road was also a hospital, used more as a clinic / Baby clinic when I lived in the area. But I was led to believe this had earlier been the Isolation Hospital / Sanatorium.
Coventry Road isn't far from there, about half hour's walk depending on which part of the road.
 
pjmburns said:
A lot of bombing raids were either not reported or reported in vague terms - a "midland town" or "industrial premises" with no names.

Newpapers online here (but not all Birmingham papers are online for 1940s).

Home | Search the archive | British Newspaper Archive

Whether you are a researcher, historian or you simply want to know more about Britain's history, take this fantastic opportunity to search The British Newspaper Archive - a vast treasure trove of historical newspapers from your own home.
www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk

search for free but subscribe to read.
Click to expand...
I've not seen the britishnewspaperarchive site before. Actually a pretty well set-up site and the searches seem quite quick & easy. That said, I had no luck this time but may revisit later when I have more time. And I do take your point about the reportage being vague...that does makes sense for that time.
 
lmr3103 said:
I don't know if this is any help but I lived in the area in the 70s. The main hospital was called East Birmingham Hospital and this was accessed from Bordesley Green East. The site of the hospital spanned a large area which went right down to Yardley Green Road. In fact this is where the Nurses Homes were, and I believe the buildings are still there.
On the other side of Yardley Green Road was also a hospital, used more as a clinic / Baby clinic when I lived in the area. But I was led to believe this had earlier been the Isolation Hospital / Sanatorium.
Coventry Road isn't far from there, about half hour's walk depending on which part of the road.
Click to expand...
Hi Lynn
Yes that definitely helps...along with MWS's contribution, it gives me a fairly plausible target area to be explored for Mom's original residence while she was a probationary nurse. Thanks to both of you!
 
David, the Birmingham Small Arms (BSA) factory was badly bombed on the 19th November 1940, and also the 22nd November.
The factory was in Armoury Road, Small Heath which is just off the Coventry Road, where your Mom was waiting for her bus.
 
lmr3103 said:
On the other side of Yardley Green Road was also a hospital, used more as a clinic / Baby clinic when I lived in the area. But I was led to believe this had earlier been the Isolation Hospital / Sanatorium.
Click to expand...

Hi,

Yes, I think it is that hospital . I believe it was an Isolation Hospital for TB.

Kind regards
Dave
 
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