• Welcome to this forum . We are a worldwide group with a common interest in Birmingham and its history. While here, please follow a few simple rules. We ask that you respect other members, thank those who have helped you and please keep your contributions on-topic with the thread.

    We do hope you enjoy your visit. BHF Admin Team

1911 census place of birth

brummy-lad

brummy-lad

master brummie
Is anybody able to decipher the place of birth for William Hayes please. I think it is Hilsborough but if so the 'H' des not match that of Head and Hayes. I can't find any other place it could be on Google. Thank-you
 

Attachments

  • hayes-1911-census.jpg
    hayes-1911-census.jpg
    940.5 KB · Views: 38
First letter looks like the P from Park in the address and the second letter looks like an e, so doesn't like it but Peterborough maybe? I'll have a look at the 1921.
 
Few other options to consider: Kilborough, Pulborough and Littleborough.

I would start with 1877 births and work from there, a process of elimination.

Good Luck....
 
brummy-lad said:
Is anybody able to decipher the place of birth for William Hayes please. I think it is Hilsborough but if so the 'H' des not match that of Head and Hayes. I can't find any other place it could be on Google. Thank-you
Click to expand...
Have you found him on earlier census records?
 
MWS said:
His birthplace appears to be listed as Peterborough in 1921 but that is just the transcript.
Click to expand...
I had considered Peterborough Mark but couldn't really see a correlation, I wondered if John's birthplace might give a clue but I can't work that one out either, looks like Market Teanum ? perhaps Market Drayton?
 
On later ERs (1950s) he appears to be listed as William E Hayes and there is a birth reg. for a William Edward Hayes in Peterborough Sep qtr 1877. His year of birth varies but the month listed on the 1939 register is August.

This William Edward Hayes is possibly the illegitimate son of an Ann Hayes from Limerick, Ireland. Living in Worksop in 1881.
 
Thanks Mark, that appears to be a distinct possibility and the illegitimacy would make sense from what my cousin has told me. If possible could you tell me if the 1921 census lists a Wilfred Hayes and a birthplace for him?
 
Yes, Wilfred is listed b1914 Birmingham (reg. Astson). Also Florence Edith b1911 and Bernard b1917, both the same. All mmn Keight.
 
Have a look at the lodger. John Hayes, aged 36. What are the chances that that's Billy's brother? His place of birth is also mistranscribed, but I would bet that it's Market Dereham. Better known to us these days as Dereham Market. That's in North Norfolk, which is in the same part of the country as Peterborough. What I think you've got here is a couple of chaps from the East of England, who were not perhaps well educated, and struggled to spell the names of their home towns properly. It's Peterborough that gets my vote. Question in my mind is, how did they come to be in Birmingham? Being a Motor Case Maker, he's obviously working in a factory. Bet him and his brother came here looking for work. If John was born in Dereham Market, and Billy was born two years later in Peterborough, the family were already on the move, trying to make a better life for themselves.
 
My suggestion: think it could be Hilsborough - the enumerator having lapsed into lower case 'h'. Viv
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot_20230425_160329_Google.jpg
    Screenshot_20230425_160329_Google.jpg
    317.1 KB · Views: 4
daveevans2010 said:
Have a look at the lodger. John Hayes, aged 36. What are the chances that that's Billy's brother? His place of birth is also mistranscribed, but I would bet that it's Market Dereham. Better known to us these days as Dereham Market. That's in North Norfolk, which is in the same part of the country as Peterborough. What I think you've got here is a couple of chaps from the East of England, who were not perhaps well educated, and struggled to spell the names of their home towns properly. It's Peterborough that gets my vote. Question in my mind is, how did they come to be in Birmingham? Being a Motor Case Maker, he's obviously working in a factory. Bet him and his brother came here looking for work. If John was born in Dereham Market, and Billy was born two years later in Peterborough, the family were already on the move, trying to make a better life for themselves.
Click to expand...
Thanks Dave that was really bugging me but I'm sure as you say it's Market Dereham.
 
Not always uneducated but maybe the Norfolk/Cambridge accent was difficult to understand by someone from Warwickshire.
 
MWS said:
On later ERs (1950s) he appears to be listed as William E Hayes and there is a birth reg. for a William Edward Hayes in Peterborough Sep qtr 1877. His year of birth varies but the month listed on the 1939 register is August.

This William Edward Hayes is possibly the illegitimate son of an Ann Hayes from Limerick, Ireland. Living in Worksop in 1881.
Click to expand...
I think that Ann is with William (born Peterborough) in Worksop on 1881 census but no sign of John. Lodging at 90 Low Town - must be some sort of hostel as there are a lot of entries for the same address,
 
pjmburns said:
I think that Ann is with William (born Peterborough) in Worksop on 1881 census but no sign of John. Lodging at 90 Low Town - must be some sort of hostel as there are a lot of entries for the same address,
Click to expand...
Thanks Janice, I just found that and it appears William has a brother or half-brother. Amazingly I was flipping the pages and a Thomas Hayes was living next door with his family but I can't find a connection at the moment
 
The problem is with only one instance of Ann on the censuses there's no way to know if there are any mistakes. In 1881 she is listed as married which if true would possible rule out William Edward born Peterborough or if that is wrong what else may be wrong.

There appears to be a younger son, Joseph Ed, with them as well who's birthplace seems to be listed as Lincoln, Middlesex. Which of those are correct?
 
MWS said:
The problem is with only one instance of Ann on the censuses there's no way to know if there are any mistakes. In 1881 she is listed as married which if true would possible rule out William Edward born Peterborough or if that is wrong what else may be wrong.

There appears to be a younger son, Joseph Ed, with them as well who's birthplace seems to be listed as Lincoln, Middlesex. Which of those are correct?
Click to expand...
I can't find a suitable birth registration for Joseph or Joseph Edward. There is a John Edward Hayes registered in 1879 in Lincoln.
 
Also elusive, can't see any definite sign of John Edward after his birth. His birth has a mmn, Spellman, but it appears to be the only one and no obvious marriage. Impossible to connect him to William with any certainty.

It may be certificates are the only option (marriage then birth) but if William fibs to cover his possible illegitimacy then even then that might not help. If the dob of the Peterborough birth certificate is 15 Aug then that would be something concrete.
 
MWS said:
Also elusive, can't see any definite sign of John Edward after his birth. His birth has a mmn, Spellman, but it appears to be the only one and no obvious marriage. Impossible to connect him to William with any certainty.

It may be certificates are the only option (marriage then birth) but if William fibs to cover his possible illegitimacy then even then that might not help. If the dob of the Peterborough birth certificate is 15 Aug then that would be something concrete.
Click to expand...
His birth has a MMN?

What is a MMN?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top