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Wilkins/Palmer
- Thread starter AMW
- Start date
MWS
from Bham
I deleted the army thing because I can't really be certain and would need something to corroborate it.
Not sure what happens to George William (the son) after 1881 or Frank (if it is him) after 1891.
Matilda possibly dies in 1899. There are a couple of possibilities for George's death prior to 1901.
Not sure what happens to George William (the son) after 1881 or Frank (if it is him) after 1891.
Matilda possibly dies in 1899. There are a couple of possibilities for George's death prior to 1901.
MWS
from Bham
Mary Bellamy was born in Lapworth, William Palmer was born in Rowington. They married in Lapworth in 1867.
Matilda Shoebottom's father Richard appears to have been in the Navy, possibly in the Marines. He appears on a number of Navy Allotment Records for various ships. There might be a Chelsea Pensioner record for him.
Matilda Shoebottom's father Richard appears to have been in the Navy, possibly in the Marines. He appears on a number of Navy Allotment Records for various ships. There might be a Chelsea Pensioner record for him.
MWS
from Bham
It's possible that Richard Shoebottom was from Bham, on one census it's Bham on another it's Plymouth. There are Shoebottom's from Bham but I've been unable find a baptism for him. I think it says his father was James on his marriage but it's not clear.
He was buried at Witton in a common grave, which now appears to have other people buried on top.
He was buried at Witton in a common grave, which now appears to have other people buried on top.
MWS
from Bham
Difficult to know what's going on, it may be that he was a publican for just a short time.
I see on the first marriage Kate's father is listed as deceased where as George Wilkins isn't, seeming to imply that he was still alive at that time though I wouldn't say that was a certainty. Though there is a possible death of about the right age in 1898.
I see on the first marriage Kate's father is listed as deceased where as George Wilkins isn't, seeming to imply that he was still alive at that time though I wouldn't say that was a certainty. Though there is a possible death of about the right age in 1898.
I think that too. My Frank is Frank C Wilkins on 1881 census. Frank Wilkins and Mary Waring are witness to George William Wilkins marriage to Kate Woodford. George lists his father as George Wilkins Publican.
Then there is a marriage between Frank Charles Henry Wilkins and Mary Pricilla Waring and Frank lists his father as George Wilkins a Publican too. I guess could the Frank Wilkins and Mary Waring be different people to those who got married?
Then there is a marriage between Frank Charles Henry Wilkins and Mary Pricilla Waring and Frank lists his father as George Wilkins a Publican too. I guess could the Frank Wilkins and Mary Waring be different people to those who got married?
MWS
from Bham
I think you can be fairly certain that the Frank & Mary who witnessed George's marriage who are the same people who subsequently married each other. And it would see probable that George and Frank are related, the ages making it a good chance that they are brothers.
However, there's not the same amount of info to prove that Albert is also a brother, though a lot of it fits. It would be nice to find another connection, Alfred's census omissions are annoying.
Do you know what details are on Albert's second marriage in 1907?
However, there's not the same amount of info to prove that Albert is also a brother, though a lot of it fits. It would be nice to find another connection, Alfred's census omissions are annoying.
Do you know what details are on Albert's second marriage in 1907?
If they are the same people that subsequently married this would make him the Frank Wilkins on 1911 census born in Burton on Trent married to Mary Pricilla Wilkins (nee Waring).
WILKINS, GEORGE WILLIAM SHOEBOTTOM GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 161
WILKINS, FRANK SHOEBOTTOM GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 305
WILKINS, ALBERT HARRY SHOEBOTTOM GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 67
I truly puzzled and for the life of me can't get to the bottom of this. Thank for you help. Good to have another pair of eyes on this.
Best wishes
Alison
WILKINS, GEORGE WILLIAM SHOEBOTTOM GRO Reference: 1871 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 161
WILKINS, FRANK SHOEBOTTOM GRO Reference: 1873 D Quarter in ASTON Volume 06D Page 305
WILKINS, ALBERT HARRY SHOEBOTTOM GRO Reference: 1882 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 67
I truly puzzled and for the life of me can't get to the bottom of this. Thank for you help. Good to have another pair of eyes on this.
Best wishes
Alison
MWS
from Bham
No, the Frank Wilkins b Burton upon Trent has nothing to do with your Wilkins family. He is a different person. What happens to your Frank Wilkins after he marries I don't know but that is not him.
However, Albert's second marriage provides the connection I was looking for. The witnesses appear to be his brother and sister in law.
So, I would definitely say that they are brothers, children of George and Matilda as mentioned. I wouldn't worry about the discrepancies in the occupations given for the father, some people changed jobs a lot in those days.
However, Albert's second marriage provides the connection I was looking for. The witnesses appear to be his brother and sister in law.
So, I would definitely say that they are brothers, children of George and Matilda as mentioned. I wouldn't worry about the discrepancies in the occupations given for the father, some people changed jobs a lot in those days.
I have confused the Mary Pricilla Waring who marries Frank Charles Henry Wilkins (my Frank) and becomes Mary Pricilla Wilkins with a Mary Pricilla Wilkins (nee Moseley) on the 1911 who is married to Frederick Charles Wilkins hence Burton on Trent. And there was me thinking 'Pricilla' was the more unusual name. Thanks so much for saving my error. It has knocked my confidence making such a glaring error. I guess at least I questioned it. 
Thanks so much for your help.
Thanks so much for your help.
MWS
from Bham
More mystery. Frank and Mary Priscilla Wilkins had a daughter Mary Matilda Wilkins b1898 d1927. In 1911 and 1921 she is with aunts and uncles on her mother's side.
Where she is (and her parents) in 1901 I don't but that she is family instead of them subsequently may imply that one or both have died.
Where she is (and her parents) in 1901 I don't but that she is family instead of them subsequently may imply that one or both have died.
MWS
from Bham
I think I've found Frank's wife and daughter in 1901 on Holliday St. She is listed as Polly Wilkins (a widow) with her daughter (also listed as Polly) 2 sisters and an uncle (Wearing) and a Daisy Wilkins, listed as a sister in law.
There doesn't appear to be any such person to match Daisy, so I'm wondering if this could be Alfred and there's been some mistake in transcription or recording. The ages match.
There doesn't appear to be any such person to match Daisy, so I'm wondering if this could be Alfred and there's been some mistake in transcription or recording. The ages match.
OMG!!! the plot thickens. Thanks for your detective work. Arthur Poolton listed above Polly Wilkins was a witness at her wedding to Frank. Where on earth does the name 'Polly' come from for the name Mary? I would never in a month of Sunday's found this information by myself. Not sure who you mean when you mention Alfred?
MWS
from Bham
I can't see what happened to Frank Wilkins. Taking the known information at face value then he died some time between his marriage in 1897 and the 1901 census when Mary is listed as a widow.
I can't see a matching death locally for a Frank Wilkins of the right age which leads to a number of possibilities - his death was registered under a different name, he died and his death was registered non locally or his death wasn't registered. None are easy to check.
There is a death for a Charles Wilkins, Mar 1900 Bham. He does give Charles as a second name on his marriage but the age is wrong also.
There is a death registered for a Frank Wilkins of about the right age, Dec 1898 Conway but unless you can find a connection to there that seems doubtful also.
I can't see a matching death locally for a Frank Wilkins of the right age which leads to a number of possibilities - his death was registered under a different name, he died and his death was registered non locally or his death wasn't registered. None are easy to check.
There is a death for a Charles Wilkins, Mar 1900 Bham. He does give Charles as a second name on his marriage but the age is wrong also.
There is a death registered for a Frank Wilkins of about the right age, Dec 1898 Conway but unless you can find a connection to there that seems doubtful also.
