Where would you go to school if you were 16 in 1871??? Jones

[LisaMaryCameron]

Wonder if anyone can help, I've mooched about to no avail. I have a gg uncle who was still at school at 16 in 1871. They lived in Duddeston. His life long career was as a Musician (listed on all census's after he is listed as scholar) although I cant find out what kind of Musician. His fathers death cert also says Musician. I think they may have played in the Salvation Army band as my great grandmother did & said all the family did but its not exactly employment.
Any way back to my main question, where would he have been still at school at 16, all his siblings older & younger were working by the time they were 14. I don't know if he boarded as he is at home when the cenus is taken which doesn't really mean anything. I wondered if his still being at school had anything to do with him becoming a musician. His name by the way was Richard Jones born 1842 in Chapel Hill, Tintern, Monmouthshire. His Father was Edward Jones born 1819 Chapel Hill ..... the family moved to Birmingham between 1842 & 1846 by children's births.
Thanks

 

[senoraruz]

Possibly the Birmingham School of Music if he was a musician.
No idea when it was founded, but you can probably find info on Google.

 

[Astonian]

If I can remember I think it was horse fair where it was situated many years ago now by the hollow way head next to the picture house
And actually facing the RAF and navy offices that was there across the red just down from the Birmingham thwarted
And the building was all knocked down to make way for the picture house and chains Chinese restaurant
But before that in was on broad street by the oriningle BBC studios that was on broad street almost facing the tow rope and the instrumental shop
You had to go between the shops to enter the old bbcstudios and the school of music I cannot give you the date of them being there first
Best wishes astonian,,,

 

[pjmburns]

Birmingham School of Music was not founded until 1886. It could have been a King Edwards School.

Janice

 

[LisaMaryCameron]

Thanks for your help all,
I thought he might have even been midlands institute cause they 1st opened a "music department" in 1859, which became the conservatoire, but it's still a bit close on dates but would give the same census results of still being a scholar in the subsequent census. I had also thought about King Edwards but he would have had to have had a scholarship which I don't know if existed then.


#Astonian - I know what your talking about it was the big top which is why the big boots is still called boots big top (even though it's moved a tad) it was still around when my father was young. But as per music hall etc would you actually put musician? Wouldn't you put artiste or entertainer? I guess typing this if you played at the gaiety et al you might say musician although it's a fine line to music hall.


I also thought about the town hall once it eventually opened it had an orchestra from 1868 but that doesn't cover the scholar bit. but it was built for the triennial festival & if that was big enough to build a whole building for might there may be other associated things going on to do with this triennial festival. I know of it & occasionally you come across "originally composed for" but I haven't been able to find any concrete info on their activities.


I have a good friend who was the archivist for the cbso for many years (who hold most of the old Birmingham music archive) he's mooching but nothing so far.


Do you think if he was an organ scholar at say st martins or St. Paul's Hockley (that did exist) he might still have put scholar?
Thanks

 

[wam]

I was told years ago that my mother's grandfather and his brother had their own Silver Band (like a brass band only the instruments are made of a different metal - not really silver). I now have pictures of the band with instruments including one outside a local hall (not Birmingham). I don't suppose it was their day job but I expect it paid. You'd probably find that most theatres employed their own band or even a full orchestra. There are stories of the early jazz musicians that say they used to play for the Salvation Army and borrow the instruments over night so they could play for money in other places. The SA would train musicians and provide the instruments which was how they got to have such good bands. I don't suppose the idea of borrowing instruments was confined to early jazz - these things would have been expensive otherwise. There seems to have been a great taste for music in Birmingham at times the three-yearly music festival started in 1768 and ran until WW1. (https://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22967&strquery=music)
There were definitely schools that taught music. Another item on British History about Birmingham says "One boys' school in 1839, the Ebenezer British School, taught music, grammar, history, architecture, and mechanics." I daresay there would have been others later.

 

[LisaMaryCameron]

I was told years ago that my mother's grandfather and his brother had their own Silver Band (like a brass band only the instruments are made of a different metal - not really silver). I now have pictures of the band with instruments including one outside a local hall (not Birmingham). I don't suppose it was their day job but I expect it paid. You'd probably find that most theatres employed their own band or even a full orchestra. There are stories of the early jazz musicians that say they used to play for the Salvation Army and borrow the instruments over night so they could play for money in other places. The SA would train musicians and provide the instruments which was how they got to have such good bands. I don't suppose the idea of borrowing instruments was confined to early jazz - these things would have been expensive otherwise. There seems to have been a great taste for music in Birmingham at times the three-yearly music festival started in 1768 and ran until WW1. (https://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=22967&strquery=music)
There were definitely schools that taught music. Another item on British History about Birmingham says "One boys' school in 1839, the Ebenezer British School, taught music, grammar, history, architecture, and mechanics." I daresay there would have been others later.

Hi,
That's a nice story & was exactly true for the rest of my ggg grandfathers family. When my greatgran was a little girl & still when my nan was a little girl, the family used to do just that, the whole family played & a lot of the instruments were on loan from the Salvation Army. But the Birmingham citadel didn't open till 1892 & the band didn't start till 1893(The Burton-on-Trent band came down for the citadel opening). I cant find any evidence of the Sally Anne's existing in Birmingham before that hence my mooching about. We went to a brilliant Jazz Concert the other night with a Band Called Hot Fingers they only play music from 1897 to 1936 it was very good but still eludes the 20 years previous! I'll keep plugging around the school, but most of the pupil lists I've found so far are for borders that are at school at the time of the census & he was at home. I've asked the conservatoire if they can check their records for me as they have some of the old midland institute stuff as well, I know cause I've seen it, I used to go their myself, but I wasn't doing family history research back then doh!

 

[LisaMaryCameron]

Thanks Astonian,
I know the building off Broad Street I think, now owned by the CBSO, 1 of the rehearsal rooms is still entered like that.