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Where is the headstone?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Premo
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Premo

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Hi

This is a long shot but I have a number of people all buried in the same plot H1413 at Warstone Lane cemetery Hockley, their names were George Thomas Nicholls, died 1951, his wife Elizabeth Ann Nicholls (nee Goode) died 1911 and Elizabeth’s parents William Goode died 1912, Elizabeth Goode (nee Clifton) died 1902.
I have all the paper work for the purchase of the grave in 1903 also receipts for the headstone and inscriptions after each Death/burial.
I have been to the cemetery and found where H1413 should but low and behold there is no headstone.
Now question is if its been removed can anyone tell where it might be because I know there should be one from the paper work I have, I have been in contact with Handsworth Cemetery but they were unable to help.

Any help most appreciated, David
 
Is it possible someone had it removed for restoration?

The cemetery should be able to give you names of stonemasons who would carry out restoration work. You could then find out if any of them have the headstone.
 
Sadly due to the risk of someone being injured by toppling headstones some graveyards have been cleared of any stones considered a problem. Health and safety and risk assesment no doubt.
Headstones have disappeared in a big way in Herefordshire. It also makes it easier to keep the grass cut. Steps should have been taken to trace the owner of the stone /plot but being a time consuming and expensive business some authorities just removed old stones.I doubt if they were carefully stored away.The people presently responsible for the cemetery should have record of the removals. Try not taking no for an answer and badger them.Best of Luck Premo.
 
Hi and thanks for your replies

As you can see from my first post the last person buried in the plot was George Thomas Nicholls in 1951, his granddaughter Edith Barber aged 98 told me some time ago the headstone was there as she visited the grave when she was younger.

I have asked Handsworth cemetery if they have any records of the removal but they told me the records for Warstone cemetery were in a bit of a mess and could not find any records of removal, they did say the headstone could be buried in the grave but I can only imagine the looks I would get if I went there with a fork and shovel and started digging for it.

They also mentioned a group called the friends of Keyhill cemetery; does anyone know what records they might have?

David
 
hi david
the best person for that question would be wendy she as contact with these people friends of key hill cemetry but give her a chance ,if i know wendy she would have already seen your thread and request and as i am clapping away now on
this key board she may be already on your case
so just back and wait i,m pretty sure she will come back to you on this
i know she works hard on hese cases she did for me once
i thought she forgott but eventualy she came back to me withthe answer
take care best wishes astonian ;;;
 
Apart from the "authorised" vandalism I have seen many beautiful memorials pushed over and subsequntly removed. In the1980's I remember volunteers recording headstone details and locations prior to clean outs of old stones. An unattended grave with the last interrment in the early 1950s would probably lead to a quick check of last given address of plot owner and no more.
Lets hope wendy can come up with the goods, you cannot beat local nouse and contacts.

Just for information I buried my 1st Mrs in 1990 and since have had two notices that the headstone had shifted . She is still costing me money , must be getting restless.
 
I am sorry to hear the headstone on your grave is no longer there. As has been mentioned it may be due to vandalism. If the stone was pushed or fell over it may have been removed. I have heard several stories of broken headstones used for paths and hardcore but I have never seen any evidence of this. The last burial in the grave being some fifty years ago a lot can happen in that time. Health and Safety do not remove headstones they lay them down or put a support in to hold the headstone safe until it can be repaired. Some memorials were removed at Key Hill cemetery a few years ago for the Metro. I don't know what happened to them. It was very difficult to contact all the families and many had moved house so the addresses were no longer of any help. I feel sorry for families who come across this problem but when a grave is not cared for it can sink and fall into disrepair. My own grandfather's headstone was removed from the grave at a cemetery in West Bromwich. I have never found out what happened to it. As has been mentioned a lot of clearing was done in the 1960's to make cemeteries easier to look after e.g. grass cutting. Several gravestones in one area of Key Hill Cemetery were buried on site including the Martineau family which has just been located. I am not sure if the same was done at Warstone Lane. As Handsworth told you the records are in a bit of a mess I know I have seen them. The Friends Of Key Hill Cemetery have now joined forces with Warstone Lane. The "friends" are desperate for people to help with such projects as memorial inscriptions. I would love to do more but work full time so a lot of my support is in the background. I would contact the Friends of Key Hill and Warstone Lane Cemeteries and see if they can help with any information. Here is the contact email and phone number for the "Friends"

dick.empson@friendsofkeyhillcemetery.org.uk 0121 551 2109
 
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Well reading between the lines it looks a hopeless case and as Wendy said it’s been nearly sixty years the headstone could have been buried, used for hardcore or something else in that time.

I will try a couple of Wendy’s suggestions and see where it takes me, thank you for all your help

Must say I found Arkrite’s little piece below quite funny, hope he meant it as a joke!

Just for information I buried my 1st Mrs in 1990 and since have had two notices that the headstone had shifted. She is still costing me money, must be getting restless.

Thanks again for all your replies and help, David
 
Premo.. Its fact, at least the bit about the headstone movement.The grave is in a country churchyard and the wet summers caused some of the stones to lean. Deeper pins below the stone seem to have solved the problem.
Only a month ago I visited the grave of my present partners father. Her son could not find the memorial stone which is flush to the ground. I found it where its always been but had to remove a thick covering of turf which had built up over the last two years.You often see people with gardening equipment in local graveyards. The church or council do only the minimum but the locals prefer to help out and keep things tidy.
 
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Hello Mr A, makes a change from pubs doesnt it? :P

Headstones - initailly they are the responsibility of the grave owner to maintain. So it is possible that an earlier member of the family has had it removed. After that, the church/civil cemetery are responsible for its condition, so if they cant locate an owner, they can remove it (one Black Country authority spent a fortune on special bags to place over stones)

A parish church would be required to send a faculty paper to the Bishop of the appropriate Diocese (yes, i worked at Lichfield Record Office once!) when removing a stone, whether they do is a different matter and this may vary from diocese to diocese

A civil cemetery should record what it does with stones, but again, this isnt always the case. The groundsman will not necessarily have access to the records of who owns a grave (these could be stored centrally at the Cem Dept, like at Willenhall Lawn Cem for Walsall). Theft of gravestones is a bigger problem than people assume, and a civil cemetery may not even realise that a stone has gone. A broken stone may be moved out of the way and get disposed of years later. In Walsall, the Queens St cemetery has been completely grassed over, with every stone laid down first.
 
Hello Archivist , welcome to the forum and I hope you stay around. Your expertise will add to vast knowledge bank here and a rich sense of humour runs through the place.Check out Wessex pubs threads while you are at it. Again welcome.
 
been completely grassed over, with every stone laid down first.

Just a thought, but to find out, you could try pushing a SHORT screwdriver or something similar into the turf, see if you hit something hard.
 
You may have read on the Key Hill Cemetery thread the memorial on my family grave lost for over 50 years has just been excavated. It was nearly three foot down!

Archivist thak you for your posting very interesting. I have a little knowledge picked up by my interest in the cemetery above.
 
It was discovered to be buried in some old records. I asked for permission and the volunteers at the cemetery located it from maps and then dug the earth away on top of it. I now have to try and find the money to get it raised as this has to be done by a stone mason.
 
hi wendy...you must be delighted at the discovery...i think its marvelous....and i wish you well in getting it raised...

lyn:):)
 
I had a simialr problem with grave N418 in Warstone Lane. I had all the paperwork as well, so I emailed Handsworth cemetery and had a very helpful reply from a lady called Joy Keetly (see attached). This says that the memorial was a flat slab, buried on site.
Try emailing the cemetery to see if this lady responds - I had a reply within the week. From the screen shot that she sent me it looks as though they are working on getting all the records pulled together
As an aside I have been following Wendy's progress on her grave in Key Hill. I would love to uncover the slab, but I am wondering who I should seek permission from?
 
If you want to uncover the stone you have to get permission from Handsworth who look after Key Hill and Warstone Lane. I filled in a form with the help of Dick Empson who is the chairman of the Friends of Key Hill and Warstone Lane Cemeteries. I would suggest it's a good idea to join this group as they have given me so much help. The stone will have to be properly raised by a stone mason and then you are responsible for looking after it.
 
Thanks for this information Wendy - I'll take your advice and join the group as there are other relatives in Warstone Lane, where the memorial is still intact.
From the information that Hansworth gave me, it appears that the memorial is a flat slab; maybe it acted as a lid to the grave (there are six buried in the grave). I presume that it is a smaller version of the ones above the catacoombs - not an upright gravestone, so I assume that the process may be easier than with an upright gravestone.
 
Mine is a flat slab this is why they were buried to make it easier to cut the grass! As for cost thats down to the stone mason.
 
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