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Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House esp.

B

Brummie On Exmoor

master brummie
I would be so grateful if anyone can help with a hugely frustrating question, to which I know I have seen the answer....but was it in a book, on line, in my Friends of Key Hill Cemetery literature or where?

When the Old Meeting House & its Graveyard were sold to the Railway at the end of the 19th Century, the graves were all emptied and the bodies were relocated somewhere else...it might have been Key Hill in fact.

Also, the same thing happened to St Thomas, Bath Row I believe (probably later), but I am sure I read that the graves were cleared. It was I seem to remember, somewhere different from the Old Meeting House graves.....perhaps Warstone Lane or Brandwood End.

Does anyone know the answer please, to where the bodies were taken? Also, were there lists kept of the grave occupants?

Best wishes

Jane
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

Hello Jane according to Joseph McKenna's book In The Midst Of Life:

St Thomas Bath Row designed in the Greek Revival style by Rickman and Hutchinson and built on land given by the Colemore family. St Thomas's church was concercrated in 1829. It's burial ground opened in 1830, was closed in April 1914, under the Birmingham Closed Burial Ground Act of 1878 and re opened in July 1915 as a garden. The church was bombed in 1940, only it's tower survived. The site was purchased by the corporation with a view to street widening. In 1953 the remainder of the garden was laid out as a Garden Of Rest to commemorate the Coronation of Elizabeth 11. All graves and headstones were removed to Warstone Lane Cemetery.
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

Thank you Wendy, that is really useful. I did have a hunch that St Thomas graves went to Warstone Lane.

Very best wishes

Jane
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

I can't be certain, but I would think it's very likely that the bodies from the Old Meeting House Graveyard, which after 1882 became the top part of Station Street, were transferred to Witton Cemetery, which was being used for that purpose elsewhere - such as the Jewish cemetery displaced by the railway works opposite Five Ways Station.
Wendy sent a post a little while ago to say she had got hold of a copy of the memorial book which was published when the meeting house was demolished in 1882. There is a copy online which I have copied a few excerpts from:

1870 - The congregation raised the sum of £884 18s. for the purchase of a piece of land of the London and North Western Railway Company, to enlarge the burial ground and to put it in order. The Porch was added to the chapel, and the palisades in Great Queen Street.

1871 - Purchase by the trustees of a second piece of land adjoining the last, and facing Great Queen Street; amount raised £956 7s. 6d.

1875 - Application by the London and North-Western Railway Company for the purchase, from the trustees, of the graveyard and schools.

1876 - The congregation petitioned Parliament against the purchase.

In October, 1880, the trustees were informed that the railway company were desirous of entering into negotiations with them for the purchase of the property. A meeting was held November 2nd, when the trustees - feeling that any mere opposition to the railway company would be useless, and leave them with heavy expenses to pay - passed a resolution authorising Mr. W. Sextus Harding and Mr. S. B. Whitfield to negotiate with the railway company. This resolution was submitted to a special meeting of the congregation, November 5th, when a resolution was passed approving the action of the trustees.
In 1881 the Old Meeting House property was sold to the London and North Western Railway Company for £30,000.

It was with feelings of the deepest regret that the announcement of the sale of the Old Meeting House to the London and North Western Railway Company was received by many members of our oldest families in Birmingham. We had long thought the chapel too near the railway to be safe. The strong protest against the sale of it in 1876 showed the feeling of the majority of its members.

Not only are all the historical associations in connection with the place about to be swept away, but the removal of the dead is a painful matter, although everything will be done by the proper authorities to alleviate the feelings of the friends of the deceased. The chapel about to be taken down is, like its predecessor, a protest in this town on behalf of liberty of conscience. Historically the congregation represents the English Presbyterians of two centuries ago. Its pulpit has been filled by a succession of enlightened men, who have taught the simple truths of religion without creeds, and have rendered a valuable service in sustaining the intellectual life of Birmingham.
Our chapel has been a power in the town, and within its walls have worshipped men who have helped to make Birmingham what it is; their endeavour has been, and is, to leave the world better than they found.

As there are some misunderstandings about its location, I attach a location plan showing the Old Meeting House.
Peter
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

Hi Peter, thank you very much for this. The Witton Cemetery suggestion looks a logical destination. Yes, I have seen the Memorial book about the Old Meeting House, its a wonderful source of info isn't it, and the drawings of the memorials from there which appear in the back of the book are amazing. For anyone looking for it, it is Catherine Hutton BEALE 'Memorials of the Old Meeting House and burial ground, Birmingham' (1882) printed by White and Pike. It is available to read online at the American Libraries Internet Archive (University of California Libraries). Other places such as Amazon won't let you read it. Peter, your map looks really useful, but I haven't been able to blow it up big enough to look at properly. Is there any chance of emailing it to me (if that doesn't break any Forum rules or protocols - I am not experienced enough to be sure about that, can you advise please)?

Very best wishes and many thanks

Jane
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

Jane, the answer to your last question, 'were there lists kept of the grave occupants' - yes of course, there was a burial record when they were originally buried, but when they were moved to Warstone Lane (St Thomas) and laid in the catacombs, the entry simply says something like 'various coffins from St Thomas's, Bath Row'. No list of names, but if you positively know that a person was buried at St Thomas, you can be positive that they were removed to Warstone Catacombs. Shortie
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

Hi Shortie, thanks for your reply. The info re the Catacombs is fascinating.
Yes, I realised that grave occupants were recorded at burial (and have found many relatives buried in St Thomas originally) but what I wondered was, whether as they cleared the graves, they recorded the names on remaining headstones as they dug them up, or perhaps (as it were) ticked them off on the grave plan. In the case of St Thomas in particular, I was not absolutely sure whether they cleared every grave in the whole site, or only certain parts of the graveyard.
Best wishes
Jane
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

Hi Jane, according to my information, St Thomas' burial ground opened in 1830, and was closed in April 1914 under the Birmingham Closed Burial Ground Act of 1878 and it reopened in July 1915 as a garden. This suggests to me that at that time, only headstones were removed, and the remains were still intact. In 1953 'the remainder of the garden was laid out as a Garden of Rest' - that suggests that there may have been two lots of removals, so is a little confusing. I have had a look at the Warstone records, and I am sure it was a catacomb entry, but will check when I next to to Handsworth. Catcombs did not sell as well as was originally anticipated both in Warstone and Key Hill, so it is very likely that they are in there, as quite a few were unoccupied. At the moment I have no idea when I will be able to go, but it should be within the next two to three weeks. Shortie
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

:smile2:Hi Shortie,
That is such a generous offer, thank you so much. Unfortunately, because I am a full-time carer for my (Brummie!) Mum down here, I can only get up to the Library etc in Brum occasionally, loaded down with questions to research, and I usually end up with more leads and questions than I started with!!!! So if you do know where the answer may lie, I'd be really grateful. Absolutely no rush.:smile2:

Very best wishes

Jane
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

Hi Jane, it looks like you do the same as me when I go to the library - I don't live in Birmingham so I go with a heck of a long list. I am friendly with the staff at Handsworth, so when I visit mother-in-law, I shall pop round, as she is only about a mile from the Cemetery. I have to go to Handsworth with some questions of my own, so yours will speed me on! Regards Shortie
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

Jane,
I'm glad you found my map interesting. I'm afraid it doesn't really lend itself to enlarging on the forum's attachment system.
Perhaps these two maps may give you more detail. The first was published by the Society for the Diffusion of Useful Knowledge in the United Kingdom in 1838 Just as Curzon Street Street railway station opened, and the second is from the Ordnance Survey of 1902. Although I knew nothing at the time about the Old Meeting House, I can remember that alleyway which ran down from the corner of Worcester Street and Station Street to Dudley Street opposite Hinckley Street. In the mid-1950s, I seem to recall that much of the land around Hinckley Street had been cleared and was used for car and lorry parking-presumably after war damage.
Peter
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

:smile2:Hi Peter,

Thank you so much for going to so much trouble. It never fails to delight me when I see the time and trouble my fellow Brummies are prepared to take! I am really grateful for this, as I have found it tricky to work out exactly where the Meeting Houses fitted in to the current ground plan.

My memories only really begin in the early 60s when I was at Primary School, and my Mum took me shopping in the centre in school holidays. And then of course, being tugged around by Mum, you don't really take some of these sort of details in. After nearly 25 years away, coming back with my non Brummie Husband (but Honorary Brummie because he loves the city as much as I do) in the last 10 years, we have set about exploring and understanding the place. And it is really fascinating. :smile2:

Very best wishes

Jane.
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

I HAVE FINALLY FOUND THE FINAL ANSWER TO ALL OF MY ORIGINAL QUESTION! FOR ANYONE ELSE LOOKING FOR THE ANSWER, HERE IT IS.....

I have been given some great help on my original question, and some of the answer. But I have recently found the full answer to the re-location of ALL Birmingham graveyards. It is as follows:
The Old Meeting House site was finally sold to L&NWR in 1881, to allow the expansion of New Street Station. A replacement was built in Bristol Street. The graveyard was closed and in 1882, the dead were transferred to Witton Cemetery in Moor Lane, which was already being used to receive other remains - such as from the Cannon Street Chapel, and from the Jewish Cemetery displaced by the railway works opposite Five Ways Station.

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Witton Cemetery [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Moor Lane, Witton, Birmingham[/FONT]​


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Received remains transferred from [/FONT]

Cannon Street Chapel

Chequers Walk Jewish burial ground 1876

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Ebenezer Congregational Chapel, Steelhouse Lane, 1887 and 1931[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Old Meeting House, Philip Street 1882[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Park Street Burial Ground (an extension to St Martin's) 1882[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Quaker Burial Ground, Bull Street, 1966[/FONT]

s[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ome from Scotts Burial Ground 1878[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] Zion Chapel (ex Baptist, ex Swedenborgian) 1903[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Warstone Lane Cemetery [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Warstone Lane, Hockley, Birmingham[/FONT]​



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Received remains transferred from [/FONT]​



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Christ Church Catacombs 1897[/FONT]​


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]St Mary's Whittall Street 1927 and 1952-3 [/FONT]​


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]St Thomas Bath Row 1953 [/FONT]​



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Key Hill Cemetery [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Icknield Street, Hockley, Birmingham [/FONT]​



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Received remains transferred from [/FONT]​



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Trinity Street Methodist Chapel (1883)[/FONT]​


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]New Meeting House, Moor Street, (1861) [/FONT]​


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]some from Scotts burial Ground (1878) [/FONT]​



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Handsworth Cemetery [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Oxhill Road, Handsworth, Birmingham [/FONT]​



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Received remains transferred from [/FONT]​



[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Mount Zion Baptist[/FONT]​


[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]St Andrews Presbyterian burial grounds.[/FONT]​




Hope this helps folk....​



Jane​
 
Re: Where did all the bodies go......? St Thomas, Bath Row and the Old Meeting House

Great piece of info Jane I am sure this will answer a few questions for others. Thanks for posting what you found.
 
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