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Thornton Rd windows stonings in Alum Rock
- Thread starter tali
- Start date
R
Rod
Guest
i lived over Hilliers sports shop on Alum rock Road, the stoning were going on in the lateish seventies. Im not sure what the reason, or true nature of the stonings were, but I know somthing was going on? Wasnt it reported on Arthur C Clarks mysterious world
Last edited by a moderator:
Nicholas
master brummie
Hi,
Indeed, the matter did appear on one of the Arthur C. Clarke shows....
It apparently involved 5 houses in Thornton Rd and occurred in the early 80's. By the end of 1982, police had allegedly spent over 3500 man hours dedicated to these happenings.... much of which entailed camping out in the gardens of the houses concerned in sleeping bags!! Night vision equipment was used in the search for potential culprits, but nothing was ever found.
The stones concerned were apparently native to the area and, according to experts, appeared to have been washed clean. (No soil, fingerprints, etc)
Needless to say, a poltergeist was blamed for these occurences by many..... though I'd personally be looking for a misguided someone living fairly close by with a lot of time on their hands!!
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
R
Rod
Guest
Perhaps only reported in the early eighties Nicholas, but it was going on I'm sure in the late seventies too? I honestly believe it was carried out by a person and had no "Super Natural" connection.
Nicholas
master brummie
Hi Balrog,
The information I've got listed for the events concerned mentions that police camped in the gardens of the properties during one of Britains coldest Winters ever 1981 / 82, so - depending on how long the whole affair lasted - it possibly could have begun during the late 70's(?) The 3500 man-hours quote was given as 'by the end of 1982', so I presume that this was possibly the end of the case, as such.
Wikipedia gives us a quote, saying the case began in late 1981, though I'm not sure how accurate this might be?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thornton_Road_poltergeist
I do concur with you on your human agency suggestion Balrog!! While there is supposedly some evidence for quite 'localised' incidents of stone throwing in poltergeist cases (also, of which I'm far from convinced, I must admit!), but the 'focus' of the Thornton Road case seems much too large really!!
Personally speaking, I can well imagine someone living locally with some form of home-made siege-like-device revelling in the chaos they were causing and / or media attention they were generating with their antics!!
Best wishes,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
Nicholas
master brummie
Hi Tali,
I don't know if the A. C. Clarke video is available online, but I've not seen it anywhere. Watching the Paranormal Channel a few months ago, I did see the piece concerned, but the shows are very random - so it would be 'hit and miss' to catch it again, I'm sure????
I'm not at all sure about how cunning someone would have to sbe or how much strategy they'd have to use to pull off this sort of thing, but type Thornton Road into Google Maps and take a look at the region using the satellite option. To be honest, the layout of the area has always struck me as absolutely perfect for pulling off such a hoax...... parallel roads, etc, would make such activity rather easy, I'd think. Practically thinking, I'm sure you'd need some form of 'device' for projecting the stones concerned, but I don't think this would be too hard to rig-up, to be honest? I might be wrong, but I believe (?) that the attacks only occurred at night - making nefarious activity infinitely easier to pull off and - to me at least - being rather suggestive with regards to human agencies being involved(?)
Unfortunately, as with a lot of these sort of things, we're trying to assess the case here with very little detail indeed.
I was contacted by an author who was supposedly putting this case into a (then) forthcoming book a couple of years ago. He was an ex-copper who said he still knew a lot of the policemen who'd been involved in the case. I will try and dig his details out and get onto him and see if I can find any pertinent info.
Best wishes,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
I don't know if the A. C. Clarke video is available online, but I've not seen it anywhere. Watching the Paranormal Channel a few months ago, I did see the piece concerned, but the shows are very random - so it would be 'hit and miss' to catch it again, I'm sure????
I'm not at all sure about how cunning someone would have to sbe or how much strategy they'd have to use to pull off this sort of thing, but type Thornton Road into Google Maps and take a look at the region using the satellite option. To be honest, the layout of the area has always struck me as absolutely perfect for pulling off such a hoax...... parallel roads, etc, would make such activity rather easy, I'd think. Practically thinking, I'm sure you'd need some form of 'device' for projecting the stones concerned, but I don't think this would be too hard to rig-up, to be honest? I might be wrong, but I believe (?) that the attacks only occurred at night - making nefarious activity infinitely easier to pull off and - to me at least - being rather suggestive with regards to human agencies being involved(?)
Unfortunately, as with a lot of these sort of things, we're trying to assess the case here with very little detail indeed.
I was contacted by an author who was supposedly putting this case into a (then) forthcoming book a couple of years ago. He was an ex-copper who said he still knew a lot of the policemen who'd been involved in the case. I will try and dig his details out and get onto him and see if I can find any pertinent info.
Best wishes,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
tali
master brummie
Nicholas - surely your logical explanation of a "prankster" would have been considered at the time by even just 1 of the residents, never mind the police and news reporters - in fact i'm 99.9% sure most would have offered your explanation aswell.
In fact iirc the Prankster explanation was the most obvious one considered at the time - and yet the Evening Mail decided many times it was worth running a story and the Police considered it also worthy of detailed investigation, Arthur C Clarke deemed it unusual enough to cover it and Wikipedia gave it an entry.
In fact iirc the Prankster explanation was the most obvious one considered at the time - and yet the Evening Mail decided many times it was worth running a story and the Police considered it also worthy of detailed investigation, Arthur C Clarke deemed it unusual enough to cover it and Wikipedia gave it an entry.
shavedfish49
master brummie
My mother lived nearby and I remember her saying the police hadn't a ghost of a chance catching the suspect!
R
Rod
Guest
I dont think the fact that Arthur C Clark, or The Evening Mail covering the story adds any weight to it myself. I also know what I got up to as a kid and got clean away with :angel:. The papers and TV would up thier viewing figures. Arthur C Clark was earning a few bob, I guess using material that had been researched for him, I imagine he was just a front man lending his name to the programme in exchange for a bag of silver 
. Would it be true to say Nicholas that we all want believe in something out of the ordinary and maybe because of that we give these odd happening more credibility. A couple of very strange things have happened to me in the past few years, I'd love to think of them as being supernatural in origin, but I'm pretty sceptical even though I know what I saw and heard.
. Would it be true to say Nicholas that we all want believe in something out of the ordinary and maybe because of that we give these odd happening more credibility. A couple of very strange things have happened to me in the past few years, I'd love to think of them as being supernatural in origin, but I'm pretty sceptical even though I know what I saw and heard.
Nicholas
master brummie
Hi Tali - the simple answer to this one is the fact that the authorities gave so much time to the matter...... I can't see the police, for example, donating 3500 man-hours (and X amount of cash via bringing in special equipment, etc) to look for ghosts. I'd imagine the people of Thornton Road at that point would just want an end to their windows being smashed, no matter what the explanation.
Re. the papers - well, their mantra is pretty much 'anything for a good story', so we can't put too much emphasis on their involvement if considering measured / rational thought.
I have to agree with Rob re. Arthur C. Clarke. His books and TV programmes were invariably researched by others (one or two series' by one of my personal heroes, Adam Hart-Davis) and his books penned by Simon Welfare and John Fairley. I'd imagine that, these days, it's the equivalent of authors writing a book and bunging Derek Akorah or Colin Wilson a grand or so to write the intro for you (as does happen, despite whether they know you or not
) Why the case ever came to be mentioned in conjunction with anything of a paranormal nature / explanation is anyones guess really..... though, looking at it from certain angles, you cannot help but make an association, I suppose(?) There have frequently been incidents of stone throwing associated with (alleged) poltergeist cases in the past, so anyone with a passing knowledge of the subject might draw this conclusion.
I've just been reading of a rather similar case (at least at the beginning) from Contrahoma, Oklahoma in the U.S.
On June 15th 1990, a family of 4 were sitting in their front yard one evening, when stones suddenly started hitting the side of their house. This pretty much continued for the next 24 hours, with the stones concerned ranging from half an inch in diameter to the size of a golf ball.
The area concerned has no police station, so local villagers investigated the events, but found no culprits. Apparently, the stones continued to fall - sporadically - throughout June and July.
In July, 50 people attended a vigil in the yard. One attendee thought of putting nail varnish on the stones and throwing them back into the darkness surrounding the property. The marked stones were duly thrown back. The stones were then thrown into a local pond, and, only a short while later, the 'wet stones' were thrown back at the watchers. In August, a deputy from a nearby town came to the property and was instantly pelted with stones!!
After this, coins and nails started to be thrown and an old typewriter - kept in a shed at the property - could be heard, seemingly working of it's own volition at night. Come the Wintertime and the activity changed completely. Incidents began occuring inside the house concerned and more typical poltergeist-like happenings took over......
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
Nicholas
master brummie
Brilliant stuff Tali!!! Well done!!
I'm interested to find somewhat contradictory information in this segment - the voice-over saying these effects had occurred for 6 years, while the interviewed policeman says 18 months??? Not much of a difference!? The Arthur C. Clarke book intimates just a couple of months too....... so I don't know what's going on here??
If we were considering a poltergeist effect, the 6 years quote would go against most estimates of (the duration of) poltergeist activity, which is always quoted as being relatively short lived, i.e. a matter of a couple or three months, etc. The infamous 'Enfield poltergeist' case is always looked upon with considerable awe because it managed to roll on for over a year....... (Having said all of this, I firstly don't believe in the aforementioned 'rule' and, secondly, believe the Enfield case to have been fraudulent!!)
What I'd like to know is 'how frequently' the stones fell 'during' an attack? Would they have come down singly - space between each stone - or in a shower, I wonder?
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
I'm interested to find somewhat contradictory information in this segment - the voice-over saying these effects had occurred for 6 years, while the interviewed policeman says 18 months??? Not much of a difference!? The Arthur C. Clarke book intimates just a couple of months too....... so I don't know what's going on here??
If we were considering a poltergeist effect, the 6 years quote would go against most estimates of (the duration of) poltergeist activity, which is always quoted as being relatively short lived, i.e. a matter of a couple or three months, etc. The infamous 'Enfield poltergeist' case is always looked upon with considerable awe because it managed to roll on for over a year....... (Having said all of this, I firstly don't believe in the aforementioned 'rule' and, secondly, believe the Enfield case to have been fraudulent!!)
What I'd like to know is 'how frequently' the stones fell 'during' an attack? Would they have come down singly - space between each stone - or in a shower, I wonder?
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
tali
master brummie
Nicholas - i'm 99.9% sure that Thornton Rd was a long 6 year event - as i recall the Evening Mail ran several stories over many years and highlighted explicitly the persistence of the problem.I was shocked at size of stones as i always imagined small pebbles!
Why do you think Enfield was faked?( some(only some) of it the girls did admit to, and a Tabloid getting involved doesn't help) - are those your reasons?
Why do you think Enfield was faked?( some(only some) of it the girls did admit to, and a Tabloid getting involved doesn't help) - are those your reasons?
Nicholas
master brummie
Hi Tali,
There are so many aspects to do with the Enfield case that were just so downright 'wrong'..... it would take hours to explain it all fully, to be honest.
Just skimming the surface with a few points:
The researchers themselves were so highly inexperienced - and, dare I say, downright naive - that they allowed the family to get away with so much..... It was a quite unbelieveable situation, to be honest. The foundations on which their research was based was incredibly flawed: Lyon-Playfair was a very pro-paranormal orientated bloke and Grosse had just lost a daughter and somehow believed that the appearance of this case was 'linked'??? The unwavering conviction of the latter that the case was undoubtably genuine was baffling, considering the fact that he'd caught the girls 'gaming around' [i.e. faking stuff] himself and openly admitted it!!??
Arguments that the researchers used (especially Grosse) as an argument for paranormal content to the case were highly questionable. The 'voice' - which we hear so much about - for example is constantly stressed as coming from the 'false vocal fold' by Grosse, as if this is some reason to believe that it's not the girl who is in control of what is being said. During interviews, he constantly stresses that the FVF is something you only use when you lose your voice (as if this backs up his pro-paranormal conviction). Unfortunately, it's also the FVF that you use when you 'put on' a daft / false, gruff voice too (i.e. when you put on a fake voice.... which is evidently what the girl concerned was doing!!!
) It's constantly stressed by Grosse that he has literally 'hundreds of hours' of conversation with the alleged ghost voice on tape. I'd always found it strange then that, in interviews, TV programmes and the like, you only ever hear the same (very few) clips played over and over again......??? Having been privy to some other footage that hasn't been widely broadcast in recent years, it's actually quite clear precisely 'why' we don't hear any of the other recordings....... Basically, all they do is quite evidently / blatantly indicate that the voice was little more than 'kids messing around' (which is exactly why Grosse has pretty much never used them and chose to use only 'select' samples. This obviously speaks volues about the motivation of the researchers concerned, of course).
The veteran researcher Tony Cornell summed the entire case up when he outlined a visit to Enfield and said that Grosse and co. were simply pandering to the whim of the girls concerned and generally (but quite happily) being messed around. In saying this, he was mainly commenting on the way in which the girls were demanding that researchers be 'outside' of a room - they had to wait outside, etc - before stuff would happen within the room concerned!?!? Grosse and co. happily did this for some reason, without question??? What??????
The above sentiment has been stressed time and again by other researchers too.
What I find rather interesting is the fact that Grosse (while the case was occuring, apparently) actually threatened to sue one news reporter who suggested that the case was a fake and had the work of another researcher 'buried' because a thesis she was writing intimated the same. The man doth protest a little too much, methinks??? (The thesis still cannot be found today, over 30 years later and after the death of it's author!?!?)
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
tali
master brummie
Fair enough Nicholas .My views are I always thought the jumping out of beds photos were a tad unconvincing - puzzled as to why no one has tried to recreate them using same equipment - to (pardon the pun) put the matter to bed!
Yes voice does sound like Grosse.But didn't audiologists state it was impossible for the girl to throw her voice?
Grosse's daughter , like you , i'm baffled by the rather contrived connection.
Also some of the strange events happened in front of Police , news reporters and a member of public.In fact in a recent documentary one of the reporters stated that some of it was unconvincing - but admitted he also witnessed events as a sceptical observer that he simply could not explain.
Also , although you are suspicious of Grosse - he did not originally report instigate or prompt the inexplicable events - those were solely reported by the family
The girls stared faking stuff so to prolong stay of Grosse who they saw as a father figure after their own father left home.
Jane Goldman Investigates interviewed one of the girls a few years back without revealing her full identity -it is first time she had spoken publically of those events.There was absolute fear and terror in her words- now she could be faking it - if she is -then it makes for, imho, quite an astonishing acting masterclass.
Yes voice does sound like Grosse.But didn't audiologists state it was impossible for the girl to throw her voice?
Grosse's daughter , like you , i'm baffled by the rather contrived connection.
Also some of the strange events happened in front of Police , news reporters and a member of public.In fact in a recent documentary one of the reporters stated that some of it was unconvincing - but admitted he also witnessed events as a sceptical observer that he simply could not explain.
Also , although you are suspicious of Grosse - he did not originally report instigate or prompt the inexplicable events - those were solely reported by the family
The girls stared faking stuff so to prolong stay of Grosse who they saw as a father figure after their own father left home.
Jane Goldman Investigates interviewed one of the girls a few years back without revealing her full identity -it is first time she had spoken publically of those events.There was absolute fear and terror in her words- now she could be faking it - if she is -then it makes for, imho, quite an astonishing acting masterclass.
Nicholas
master brummie
Hi Tali,
I'd forgotten about the girls 'levitating' when I wrote my last piece!!
How could I ever do that?? It would appear that some authorities at that time were getting the words 'levitate' and 'jump' totally mixed up, of course !!! Pretty much all of the comments publicised on the alleged 'ghost voice' came from the pro-paranormal camp, it seems. Basically though, through the use of the laryngograph, it was proven (by Grosse and co. remember) that the voice was coming from Janet and nowhere else. The argument put forward by Grosse was that it was coming from the false vocal fold, which you only really use when you lose your voice, etc. Unfortunately, you also use the false vocal fold when you put on a false, gruff voice (for example). Of course, it's open to conjecture..... a ghost could have been controlling the girls falso vocal fold, or she could have actually (simply) been putting on a 'pretend' voice....... Call me a cynic, but I know which seems the most obvious solution, of course!
Grosse claimed to have seen Janet produce the voice with her mouth taped up and full of water........ though I find it strange that - in a field were evidence is paramount - we've never been made privy to a recording of such??? Surely Grosse would have made one (some?) at such a revalatory event???
Re. the 'daughter' connection...... this evidently strikes you as someone possibly clutching at straws in the face of a devastating, personal tragedy. His daughter was called Janet, the same as the eldest girl in the Enfield household.........
As suggested by a number of researchers, there might have possibly been some 'real' paranormal events at Enfield to begin with...... though it is a (now impossible) matter of sorting out 'definite events' from 'could they, or couldn't they' happenings if we're really trying to digest / study the case. I've seen footage of the reporter who first visited the site (at the beginning of the case) claiming that it all got 'too much to swallow' as the case progressed.... despite the fact that he allegedly witnessed activity himself(?) Likewise, some sources say that the policewoman witness also spoke of fraud a little later on, etc. We also have to remember that the worst / weakest type of evidence available is witness testimony.
Indeed - Grosse didn't inspire the events initially.... but this certainly couldn't be said of the entire case as it progressed. (Even if a lot of his input into the overall matter was done innocently enough, purely by his presence). Having said that, Grosses dogged, unshaking defence of the reported events (pretty much 'all' of them, it has to be said) doesn't speak very well of his 'objectivity' when it comes to such matters. Again, I recall his threats to sue a reporter who suggested the case was 'fraudulent' and his determined harrassment of a fellow, academically motivated investigator who mentioned the same, etc. Re. the events themselves - these escalated dramatically after the appearance of Grosse and co. on the scene. This may have well been a natural progression, of course, or otherwise.....
Grosse also treated the family to a weeks holiday during the case, constantly splashed attention on them, bought the children presents and so on.
It's interesting to note that Janet has only recently started giving interviews re. the case, while Margaret turned up on a few programmes a few years ago. I have to admit that I find Margaret the more convincing on film, while Janet strikes me - quite strangely, I think - as somewhat 'flat' in her delivery (given the subject matter being discussed).
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
tali
master brummie
Nicholas -you make some bona fida points- just when i'm convinced of the case - someone always throws a spanner in the works!
I assume Grosse wasn't on your Xmas card list! Grosse also turned up at the house in his bright red new-ish Jag E type - old bloke /phallic sports car = dodgy combo - maybe he was the attention seeker you suspected!
Are there any Poltergiest cases you are convinced by?
Btw - i think the 18 months in the Thornton Rd mentioned by the Police was the time they spent investigating it
I assume Grosse wasn't on your Xmas card list! Grosse also turned up at the house in his bright red new-ish Jag E type - old bloke /phallic sports car = dodgy combo - maybe he was the attention seeker you suspected!
Are there any Poltergiest cases you are convinced by?
Btw - i think the 18 months in the Thornton Rd mentioned by the Police was the time they spent investigating it
Nicholas
master brummie
Hi Tali,
The key problem with such cases as the Enfield Poltergeist is the simple fact that you only really ever hear from the pro-paranormal lobby regarding such things. Pretty much everything you find on the case in question either comes via the researchers intimately involved (Grosse and Co.); people directly quoting from the researchers concerned, or people from the (general) pro-paranormal lobby who want such things to be true, etc, etc. You seldom get a balanced view on such matters.
With regards to Grosse himself - I may have painted something of a jaded picture, but I honestly have (had) nothing against the chap himself.... just some of his notions and such. Akin to a lot of researchers of that general age - Peter Underwood, Andrew Green and the like - these people were pretty much the inspiration for my own dabblings in this area, so I owe them a lot really. At a core level, I (my ideas, beliefs, etc) have nothing in common with these people..... though I have to respect them for 'their time served' at least. One of my all time heroes in the field - the late, great Elliot O' Donnell - was exceptionally 'unrelable' at best with his stories and research....... but I sorely love the bloke with a passion, for some reason!! (Coincidentally, I share my birthday - May 6th - with the date of his death - though separated by two years?)
Re. impressive poltergeist cases - have you ever heard of 'The Black Monk of Pontefract' at all? The following pieces certainly falls short of explaining the case fully, but it should give you a taster:
https://www.geocities.com/soloh_h/pontefract.htm
https://www.ghostlycast.com/2008/11/04/kingdom-of-shadowsthe-black-monk-of-pontefract/
Best Wises,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
The key problem with such cases as the Enfield Poltergeist is the simple fact that you only really ever hear from the pro-paranormal lobby regarding such things. Pretty much everything you find on the case in question either comes via the researchers intimately involved (Grosse and Co.); people directly quoting from the researchers concerned, or people from the (general) pro-paranormal lobby who want such things to be true, etc, etc. You seldom get a balanced view on such matters.
With regards to Grosse himself - I may have painted something of a jaded picture, but I honestly have (had) nothing against the chap himself.... just some of his notions and such. Akin to a lot of researchers of that general age - Peter Underwood, Andrew Green and the like - these people were pretty much the inspiration for my own dabblings in this area, so I owe them a lot really. At a core level, I (my ideas, beliefs, etc) have nothing in common with these people..... though I have to respect them for 'their time served' at least. One of my all time heroes in the field - the late, great Elliot O' Donnell - was exceptionally 'unrelable' at best with his stories and research....... but I sorely love the bloke with a passion, for some reason!! (Coincidentally, I share my birthday - May 6th - with the date of his death - though separated by two years?)
Re. impressive poltergeist cases - have you ever heard of 'The Black Monk of Pontefract' at all? The following pieces certainly falls short of explaining the case fully, but it should give you a taster:
https://www.geocities.com/soloh_h/pontefract.htm
https://www.ghostlycast.com/2008/11/04/kingdom-of-shadowsthe-black-monk-of-pontefract/
Best Wises,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
tali
master brummie
Nicholas -never heard of the Pontecraft one before -intriguing(will tell my kids when they're misbehaving !)
Ref Grosse - have to admit he was charasmatic.How much do you think % wise is Enfield fact and fiction -50/50 perhaps?
I find this case fascinating and even visited the location ,are you familiar with it?
https://www.ghosts.org.uk/ghost/3022/poltergeists/poltergeist/88-newark-street/whitechapel.html
Ref Grosse - have to admit he was charasmatic.How much do you think % wise is Enfield fact and fiction -50/50 perhaps?
I find this case fascinating and even visited the location ,are you familiar with it?
https://www.ghosts.org.uk/ghost/3022/poltergeists/poltergeist/88-newark-street/whitechapel.html
Nicholas
master brummie
Re. the Enfield case query - I must admit that it's hard to assess really? I think there might have been some stuff that was possibly 'real', but when there is so much stuff happening - a lot of which seems fake or has been admiited as fake - then you can't really even make a half-educated guess??
It's an interesting matter as a subject for study however, from a psychological / cultural angle at least.
Re. the case that you mention - I don't recall having heard of the matter before? (I've looked in a few of my books that hold references to London, but cannot find it anywhere?)
I'm intrigued by the fact that you visited the site concerned. There's dedication for you!!
What were your impressions of the site today? Is it still extant?
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
It's an interesting matter as a subject for study however, from a psychological / cultural angle at least.
Re. the case that you mention - I don't recall having heard of the matter before? (I've looked in a few of my books that hold references to London, but cannot find it anywhere?)
I'm intrigued by the fact that you visited the site concerned. There's dedication for you!!
What were your impressions of the site today? Is it still extant?Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
tali
master brummie
Newark St afaik gets its only mention in the Encyclopedia of Ghosts and Spirits by John and Anne Spencer .It seems to have a few other rarities as does the entertaining Marvels and Mysterys Ghosts by Parrallel which has many rarely seen pics
As for dedication, well i had a job interview at the Insolvency Service there at the time (most of the candidates seemed to be female supermodels!) and realized Newark St was close by.Didn't realize at time but notorious Sydney St (seige) was next road , and that i was in Ripper and Kray heartland
Here it is !(ignore number 108) and have a good wander around the street !
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&....056176&spn=0.005141,0.013647&z=16&iwloc=addr
Are any family members alive from the Pontefract case?
As for dedication, well i had a job interview at the Insolvency Service there at the time (most of the candidates seemed to be female supermodels!) and realized Newark St was close by.Didn't realize at time but notorious Sydney St (seige) was next road , and that i was in Ripper and Kray heartland
Here it is !(ignore number 108) and have a good wander around the street !
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&....056176&spn=0.005141,0.013647&z=16&iwloc=addr
Are any family members alive from the Pontefract case?
Nicholas
master brummie
Superb Tali !!! I do have the Encyclopedia of Ghosts and Spirits.... but that was one of the books I didn't look in!! Given the particulars of the case, I'd have thought it might have been included in some of the volumes dedicated specifically to London hauntings, etc?? Wierd that!?
Hah - how about that for a coincidence, I only watched a documentary the other day on the Sydney St siege!!
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
Given the particulars of the case, I'd have thought it might have been included in some of the volumes dedicated specifically to London hauntings, etc?? Wierd that!?Hah - how about that for a coincidence, I only watched a documentary the other day on the Sydney St siege!!
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
tali
master brummie
Nicholas - what i wanted to know in general is when does ghost activity occur from the time occupants move in?- can it occur even if they have lived in house for decades?( i assume this is rare?)
BTW Here is Pontefract monk house (sadly not street view) click on birds eye view
https://www.mouseprice.com/house-pr...CurrentLong=-1.87&ZoomLevel=2&PropertyType=-1
BTW Here is Pontefract monk house (sadly not street view) click on birds eye view
https://www.mouseprice.com/house-pr...CurrentLong=-1.87&ZoomLevel=2&PropertyType=-1
Nicholas
master brummie
Hi Tali,
An frequently repeated quote regarding the 'beginning' of poltergeist happenings goes something along the lines of 6 months after you've moved into a property, or 6 months before you move out. Personally speaking, this strikes me as utter cr*p, to be honest...... and the words of the aforementioned Maurice Grosse instantly spring to mind with his 'the only people who will give you answers in this field are charlatans' comment.
Basically, there doesn't really seem to be any set pattern to such things. It's often said that poltergeist effects are generally short lived, usually lasting only a matter of a few months at best. Again, from personal experience, this also seems to be utter rot too!! There are some researchers who use the latter mentioned as a 'golden rule' to spot whether a case is genuine or not - something which I find both perplexing and somewhat arrogant really!! :boohoo::boohoo:
It seems that such activity - if genuine - can occur at any point during a tenancy, though people have often mentioned that small things may have been going on for some while before a larger, more blatant effect sets in. (And, frequently, after a larger effect has diminished).
It's frequently intimated that poltergeist effects and actual hauntings are two, totally separate things. However, most poltergeist effects have an apparitional content to them and vice-versa. Some hauntings - running for many, many decades at times - have had an equally lengthy poltergeist element within them....
Re. the Pontefract house: a (late) researcher friend of mine only lived a short distance from the property concerned and said that he would take some pics of the site for me..... Sadly, he died before he actually carried out the task.
Best wishes to you,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
An frequently repeated quote regarding the 'beginning' of poltergeist happenings goes something along the lines of 6 months after you've moved into a property, or 6 months before you move out. Personally speaking, this strikes me as utter cr*p, to be honest...... and the words of the aforementioned Maurice Grosse instantly spring to mind with his 'the only people who will give you answers in this field are charlatans' comment.
Basically, there doesn't really seem to be any set pattern to such things. It's often said that poltergeist effects are generally short lived, usually lasting only a matter of a few months at best. Again, from personal experience, this also seems to be utter rot too!! There are some researchers who use the latter mentioned as a 'golden rule' to spot whether a case is genuine or not - something which I find both perplexing and somewhat arrogant really!! :boohoo::boohoo:
It seems that such activity - if genuine - can occur at any point during a tenancy, though people have often mentioned that small things may have been going on for some while before a larger, more blatant effect sets in. (And, frequently, after a larger effect has diminished).
It's frequently intimated that poltergeist effects and actual hauntings are two, totally separate things. However, most poltergeist effects have an apparitional content to them and vice-versa. Some hauntings - running for many, many decades at times - have had an equally lengthy poltergeist element within them....
Re. the Pontefract house: a (late) researcher friend of mine only lived a short distance from the property concerned and said that he would take some pics of the site for me..... Sadly, he died before he actually carried out the task.
Best wishes to you,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
Nicholas
master brummie
On the subject of poltergeist outbreaks in general, I was recently discussing the sort of phenomenon that falls into this particular category. I cannot recall what case it was now, but, on countering a comment regarding how 'mundane' such effects tend to be, I outlined a matter where the poltergiest in question had a habit of constructing 'tableaus' - involving numerous, life-size, life-like figures in some - where the forms concerned had been constructed out of clothing, cloth, odds and ends and so on!! (Including figures hung from the ceilings of rooms, etc). Apparently these scenes were erected in record time..... much quicker than humanly possible!!
I will have to take a look through my books and see if I can find it again...
I notice that the EGS mentions that the poltergeist affected subsequent tenants at Newark St and this was 'unusual'.......
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com
I will have to take a look through my books and see if I can find it again...
I notice that the EGS mentions that the poltergeist affected subsequent tenants at Newark St and this was 'unusual'.......
Regards,
Nick
www.westmidlandsghostclub.com