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Thomas Bland & Sons The Gunmakers

B

Bronwen Summers

knowlegable brummie
Hi

I have got quite confused by reading up about the gunmaker family on a site. It says
'Thomas Bland born in 1822 and his younger brother Edwin started the firm in about 1840. '

However this is the information I have of that family and the dates and names don't quite stand up. Thomas would have only been 21 in 1840 and his brother Edwin about 10. Their father Edwin was a gun finisher in the 1841 census. In the 1851 census after his death his wife was a tool broker. Edwin the son died in shoreditch, London in 1872 he was a gas fitter!

The problem is I cannot find another Thomas with a brother Edwin who is younger than him other that the two mentioned.

Many thanks for looking at this and if anyone has anymore information about this family please advise.
Bronwen, Christchurch. NZ

1720? BLAND
Thomas Bland husband of Mary ?
b.
m.
d.

Mary ? wife of Thomas Bland mother of Thomas Bland
b.
m.1740
d.
Children 2
1740 cOct 22 Beatrice Bland, Birmingham, Eng. Non-Conformist Record Indexes
1743 Jan 7 Thomas Bland, Moor St Unitarian New Meeting House, Birmingham

Thomas Bland husband of Hannah Smith
b.1743 Jan 7 Moor St Unitarian New Meeting House, Birmingham
m.1767 Mar 1 St Peter, Harborne, Birmingham, Hannah Smith
d.1813 Aston St

1747? SMITH
Hannah Smith wife of Thomas Bland mother of Thomas Blank
b.
m.1767 Mar 1 St Peter, Harborne, Birmingham, Thomas Bland (he was a widower)
d.
Children 3
1767 Sept 30 Thomas Blank, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1769 Sep 29 James Gland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1771 Jun 28 Catherine Bland St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.

Thomas Bland husband of Mary Parker
b.1767 Sept 30 Birmingham, Eng.
m.1788 Oct 1 Mary Parker, Birmingham, Eng. They were both of the parish, witnesses were William Garner & Sarah Bell – all four signed
d.1813 Mar 11 St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.

Mary Parker wife of Thomas Bland mother of Edwin John Bland
b.1766 Dec 26 St Philips of the parish of Exhall, Warwickshire
m.1788 Oct 1 Thomas Bland, Birmingham, Eng. They were both of the parish, witnesses were William Garner & Sarah Bell – all four signed)
d.1837 June 18 St Martin, Birmingham, Eng. (74) widow, Weaman street
Children 5
1791 June 16 William Henry Bland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng. m.Elizabeth Cooksey by banns 1824 June 21 Yardley, St Edburgha, both otp. Witnesses John (brother) & Elizabeth Bland. William was a witness to Joseph Betteridge who married the same day. William henry buried 1846 Feb 11 St Philps. Abode Small Heath parish of Aston. William & Elizabeth children baptised together on 23 Oct 1829 at St Philips. Mary Ann 1821, John 1826, Charles 1828, Matilda 1829, Robert 1832. William was a Button Burnisher of Little Charles St. in 1832 family in same abode. William now a Victualler.
1793 May 10 James Bland, St Philips, Birmingham, Eng. death 1838 Jan 19 aged 44 St Martin, abode Weaman St. Almost certainly lived with his mother who died the year before.
1796 Apr 25 Edwin John Bland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1798 May 28-1872 Mar 28 John Bland, St Philips, Birmingham, Eng. John Bland was buried age 72 Aston, St Peter and St Paul, 28 Mar 1872, abode Weaman St.
1800 May 26 Theodore Bland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng. m.Elizabeth Hancock 1822 Jul 14 Harborne, St Peter, both otp. child Elizabeth Gregory Bland was born 1823 b1824 Dec 29 Dec St. Philip, abode Edmund St. father a Brass Founder. Theadore Bland 1855 Sep 4 buried St Bartholomew, Abode Cecil St

Edwin John Bland husband of Sarah Brookes
b.1796 Apr 25 Warwickshire, Birmingham, Eng.
m.1818 Jan 28 Sarah Brookes, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng. Witnesses Thomas Steele & Marie Appleby
d.18848/1849 Oct>Dec Birmingham, Eng.
Census
1834 living at 70 Weaman street
1839 living at 82 Weaman street
1841 Edwin 45 gun finisher, Sarah 45, Sarah 18, Catherine 16, James 11, Edwin 9, Harriott 6, Elizabeth 1, (Weaman Street, Birmingham 1018 Weaman St, multi story: office blocks, flats and car park building)
1847 living at 14 Newton Street,

Sarah Brookes illegitimate daughter of Maria Brookes, wife of Edwin John Bland mother of Edwin
b.1796 Jan 3 Bilston, Staffordshire, Eng.
m.1818 Jan 28 Edwin John Bland, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
d.1863 Jan>Mar Birmingham, Eng.
Children 9
1818 Apr 4 William Bland, Cannon St meeting house, Baptist, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1819 Sept 3 Thomas Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng. Thomas Bland & Sons launched with his brother Edwin 1840ish ??? Thomas died in 1887.???????
1823 Sarah Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1825 March 23 Catherine Price Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1827 July 20 c1828 Jan 2 John Theodore Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1829 Mar 8 c1833 Jan 28 James Theodore Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng. Census 1861 James Bland 32 gas filler, Mary A Bland 30, James 11, Sarah 6, Catherine 4, Alfred 1, servant Ian Gammen aged 11. 1881 census James 51, widower, baker, boarder living with his son William 24 a button tool maker and 9 others at Brearly St West, Birmingham
1832 Feb 13 Edwin John Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1835 Harriott Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng.
1839 Nov 8 c1841 Jan 19 Elizabeth Bland, St Philip’s, Birmingham, Warwickshire, Eng. (reg to hand)
Census
1851 Sarah 55 Tool broker, Edwin John Bland law stationer apprentice, Harriet 17 lackerer, Elizabeth 11, 28 Steelhouse Lane, Warwickshire
1861 Sarah almswoman, 28 Steelhouse Lane, Warwickshire
 
I think part of the problem is there are so many children (various generations) with the same names - Thomas, Edwin and James crop up several times.
 
The site I found suggested that James and Edwin worked as gun makers from 1840 but they're too young. Could the Edwin be the Father born 1796 rather than his son? Did he have a brother Thomas?or James?
 
Yes that is what I had. I thought that also - but none of it seems to add up. All the relations are in my first post.
1767 Sept 30 Thomas Blank, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1769 Sep 29 James Gland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
and this lot
1793 May 10 James Bland, St Philips, Birmingham, Eng. death 1838 Jan 19 aged 44 St Martin, abode Weaman St. Almost certainly lived with his mother who died the year before.
1796 Apr 25 Edwin John Bland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
 
In the 1840s the gun making process was carried out by individuals who each made a part of the gun, So a barrel maker, a finisher, possibly an engraver etc. The site suggests they were founded in 1840 but then says the earliest record of them as gunmakers is 1862 which is a bit puzzling. I am now wondering if some of the family worked on the gun making process in the 1840s and the firm proper started in 1862 - a date which would fit the brothers ages.
 
Yes I had read up about it and knew the earliest record was 1862. Interestingly when I searched for deaths on the site that has all the stuff about the various cemeteries I couldn't find any of these people's burials.
 
Yes it was that site. I didn't understand that no church burials are listed however. Where can I find them? There were lots of Blands on that site but none that seemed to add up to who I am looking at.

Thanks Bronwen
 
There was a Thomas Bland and Sons from 1879 → 1908 advertised as London with works in Birmingham. The works seem to have been 41,42,43 Whittall Street.
 
Yes in the pieces I have cleaned it talks about those 3 addresses and them moving to London to open up there. It talks about the various guns that they invented. They still exist but in U.S.
 
Bronwen Summers said:
Yes it was that site. I didn't understand that no church burials are listed however. Where can I find them? There were lots of Blands on that site but none that seemed to add up to who I am looking at.

Thanks Bronwen
Click to expand...
Quite a number of the Birmingham C of E church burials are on Ancestry but the earlier the record the less information. The key date seems to be around 1813. RC burials are a more difficult prospect.
 
There is a burial at St Mary's (will have to see if I can find where it was) of Edwin Bland of Steelhouse Lane. Burial 6 Jan 1850. I see Sarah was living in Steelhouse Lane in 1851 and 1861 censuses.
Sarah, widow of Edwin also of Steelhouse Lane was buried on 1 Feb 1863 at St Peter and Paul Aston.
 

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Thanks Janice. I currently have a subscription to Genes Reunited for a year which I don't thin k is much good. Perhaps ancestry next, I have trialed for free before. I am having some paid research done in Scotland at the moment another part of my tree. I am pretty sure they were anglicans - definitely not Catholics.

Great thanks for those two you have sent me nice to have - are these from ancestry? It seems everyone lived in Steelhouse Lane.

I am sure someone somewhere will have done a study on the Bland gun makers given they were famous not just in the UK.

A beautiful day today despite it being winter, I am pruning some of my 60 roses - I am a keen gardener.

Kind regards
Bronwen
 
I would love to find the marriage of this couple, and of course her surname and any other details about either of them- I have simply 1740 because that is when the first child that I can ascertain was born.

Many thanks for looking at this for me.
Regards Bronwen

1720? BLAND
Thomas Bland husband of Mary ?
b.
m.
d.

Mary ? wife of Thomas Bland mother of Thomas Bland
b.
m.1740
d.
Children 2
1740 cOct 22 Beatrice Bland, Birmingham, Eng. Non-Conformist Record Indexes
1743 Jan 7 Thomas Bland, Moor St Unitarian New Meeting House, Birmingham
 
One advert for Thomas Bland and Sons before 1900 mentions an additional premises as 113 Steelhouse Lane.
 
Last edited:
Looking for the address 41 Whittall Street.....

A youth required for turning iron or brass work apply MR. BLAND 41 whittall Street. November 1862

There is an advert in 1866 for a servant girl about 16-apply No 41/42

In 1874 Thomas Bland, 41 Whittall Street, gun implement maker, proposed a candidate for the Municipal elections.

BUT.....in February 1837 a shop in Weaman Street belonging to Mr Bland had a gun stolen from it!
 
Funny - the time difference. I read that as I was having breakfast! Hope you enjoyed your evening. I have had a look for the marriage but records that far back are a bit hit and miss. I can't, at the moment, find a Birmingham marriage - just wondering if they came to Birmingham from elsewhere. Will keep digging.
 
Not what you asked for but burial of the Thomas who died in 1813. (Dreadful scan - bottom of page and age didn't help I suspect).
Buried at St Martins 11 March 1813.
 

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Thomas Bland and Hannah Smith - I think you have Thomas as died 1813 but that was his son judging by the age at death. I found a marriage of a Hannah Bland (widow) in 1789 to William Swatkins. No idea if this is the right person.
 

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Good morning Janice

Tango is the toughest thing I have ever ever learnt!

I have spent the morning going through all of the notes I have and tried to make it add up. It doesn't but it would be good if you could print it out and have a look. I wonder whether I have two families mixed up?

It starts with what I have regarding those Blands who were likely to have been part of Thomas and Sons gun traders.

Then I have the family tree for the Blands as I understand them.

Then a lot of notes which other people had written about Thomas and sons and their beginnings - some of which are at odds with others.

I'm off to plant some bearded irises as other than the tree I have done very little today.

I haven't looked at the two documents you have sent but will this evening.

Regards Bronwen
 

Attachments

Hi Bronwen - have downloaded and will have a look. Thomas Bland seems a common name so it may be there is more than one possibility. Wednesday is a bit busy so will probably look tomorrow,
 
Hi Janice

I have lookled at the two items you sent me and the Hannah re-marrying I am sure is not her. I think I did have Thomas Bland's death correct but appreciate the register copy. cheers Bronwen

Thomas Bland husband of Hannah Smith
b.1742 Jan 7 Moor St Unitarian New Meeting House, Birmingham, Eng.
m.1763?
m.1767 Mar 1 Hannah Smith, St Peter, Harborne, Birmingham, Hannah Smith
d.1813 Aston St, Birmingham, Eng. (reg.)

1747? SMITH
Hannah Smith wife of Thomas Bland mother of Thomas Blank
b.
m.1767 Mar 1 St Peter, Thomas Bland, Harborne, Birmingham, Thomas Bland (he was a widower)
d.
Children 3
1767 Sept 30 Thomas Blank, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1769 Sep 29 James Gland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1771 Jun 28 Catherine Bland St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.

No this isn’t right as her husband was still alive

I found a marriage of a Hannah Bland (widow) in 1789 to William Swatkins. No idea if this is the right person.
 
The bit which bothered me was that in post #1 you put:
Thomas Bland husband of Hannah Smith
b.1743 Jan 7 Moor St Unitarian New Meeting House, Birmingham
m.1767 Mar 1 St Peter, Harborne, Birmingham, Hannah Smith
d.1813 Aston St
AND
Thomas Bland husband of Mary Parker
b.1767 Sept 30 Birmingham, Eng.
m.1788 Oct 1 Mary Parker, Birmingham, Eng. They were both of the parish, witnesses were William Garner & Sarah Bell – all four signed
d.1813 Mar 11 St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
Both these you have dying in 1813. The one whose burial I posted was aged 46 so is the husband of Mary. The other was 70. That is why I thought Hannah might have remarried if that Thomas died earlier.
 
pjmburns said:
Both these you have dying in 1813. The one whose burial I posted was aged 46 so is the husband of Mary. The other was 70. That is why I thought Hannah might have remarried if that Thomas died earlier.
Click to expand...

Sorry I hadn't seen that - too many Thomas'. I have fixed. Indeed it could be a second marriage then.

thanks Bronwen
 
Couldn't resist a quick look.
James Bland died 1838. Burial at St Martins 19th January
Interestingly there is a baptism for a James Bland born 1893 (baptism 10 May) son of Thomas and Mary. (second line on attachment).

James, the son of Sarah and Edwin, was born 1829 and baptised 1833 - so something does not add up somewhere.
 

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I need to do a bit more digging but it seems Edwin and Sarah had sons called James, Thomas and Edwin. There is also the James referred to on the previous post. I need to look at ages to see who is who with regards to the firm.
 
pjmburns said:
I need to do a bit more digging but it seems Edwin and Sarah had sons called James, Thomas and Edwin. There is also the James referred to on the previous post. I need to look at ages to see who is who with regards to the firm.
Click to expand...

I need to find the date of death for this Thomas to see whether the marriage you found is my Hannah?
Thomas Bland husband of Hannah Smith
b.1742 Jan 7 Moor St Unitarian New Meeting House, Birmingham, Eng.
m.1763? 1st marriage
m.1767 Mar 1 Hannah Smith, St Peter, Harborne, Birmingham, Hannah Smith
d.

I found a marriage of a Hannah Bland (widow) in 1789 to William Swatkins. No idea if this is the right person.

1747? SMITH
Hannah Smith wife of Thomas Bland mother of Thomas Blank
b.
m.1767 Mar 1 St Peter, Thomas Bland, Harborne, Birmingham, Thomas Bland (he was a widower)
d.
Children 3
1767 Sept 30 Thomas Blank, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1769 Sep 29 James Gland, St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
1771 Jun 28 Catherine Bland St Martin, Birmingham, Eng.
 
Edwin and Sarah had sons called James, Thomas and Edwin. (yes I do have them all listed)
Interestingly there is a baptism for a James Bland born 1893 (baptism 10 May) son of Thomas and Mary. (second line on attachment).

Seems unlikely - well not unlikely probably fits in somewhere!

James, the son of Sarah and Edwin, was born 1829 and baptised 1833 - so something does not add up somewhere.
Might have been Christened later on with others in the family?
 
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