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The Wonder Coach - query over James Pollard's depiction...

T

Tomash

proper brummie kid
James Pollard painted a picture of the 1829 Wonder Coach, it is sometimes titled, in it's print form, etched by Rosenburg, The Birmingham Wonder Stage Coach.
In this depiction the stage coach door, which would normally carry the name of the coach owner and proprietor, has the name J. Hall. I have so far failed to locate this name, at least at a date that fits this depiction of the coach. From my understanding the names on the coach should actually be Taylor, for the Lion in Shrewsbury or Sherman, for the Bull and Mouth?
Also the emblem on the door does not look like any of the regular Coats of Arms. It looks more like a draped funery urn to my eyes! Can anyone pin this down?
Any enlightenment greatly appreciated. Kind regards Tom Nicholls
 

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I've looked in vain for the original painting of this print. I wonder if the prints exist in different states, perhaps one commemorates the life of J. Hall? I can't connect him with coaching.

The engraver was probably F Rosenberg 1829? A lot of interest in coaching was historical and nostalgic. (Dickens for example) So could J. Hall be later? [post amended)
 
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Stokkie said:
I've looked in vain for the original painting of this print. I wonder if the prints exist in different states, perhaps one commemorates the life of J. Hall? I can't connect him with coaching.

The engraver was probably Richard Rosenberg 1828 - 1844 ?? so must date later than the Pollard painting. A lot of interest in coaching was historical and nostalgic. (Dickens for example) So could J. Hall be later?
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Hi Stokkie, that is a really interesting thought. There was for example a John Hall of the Castle Inn, Broadgate, Coventry, 1850 - 1868.
 
Second thoughts on engraver Fredrick Rosenberg painter and aquatinter, worked after Pollard. Born in Bath, the son of the profilist and engraver Charles [Christian] Rosenberg (c.1756-1844) and younger brother of the engraver Charles Rosenberg (1794-1866).
Original print published J. Watson 1829 - but there have been many later editions.
 
Stokkie said:
I've looked in vain for the original painting of this print. I wonder if the prints exist in different states, perhaps one commemorates the life of J. Hall? I can't connect him with coaching.

The engraver was probably Richard Rosenberg 1828 - 1844 ?? so must date later than the Pollard painting. A lot of interest in coaching was historical and nostalgic. (Dickens for example) So could J. Hall be later?
Click to expand...
Frederick Rosenberg
Painter and aquatinter, worked after Pollard. Born in Bath, the son of the profilist and engraver Charles [Christian] Rosenberg (c.1756-1844) and younger brother of the engraver Charles Rosenberg (1794-1866). He signed at least one London print (1880,1113.3560), 1831, but moved to Leamington where he was at the time of the 1851 Census, listed as 'Portrait Painter' (information provided by David Alexander)
 
Tomash said:
Frederick Rosenberg
Painter and aquatinter, worked after Pollard. Born in Bath, the son of the profilist and engraver Charles [Christian] Rosenberg (c.1756-1844) and younger brother of the engraver Charles Rosenberg (1794-1866). He signed at least one London print (1880,1113.3560), 1831, but moved to Leamington where he was at the time of the 1851 Census, listed as 'Portrait Painter' (information provided by David Alexander)
Click to expand...
Could J. Hall have commissioned the print or a commemoration of his life? In 1829.
 
Tomash said:
Thanks Pedrocut, interesting. Harper also talks about a fierce competition between another of Horne's coaches, Nimrod and the Wonder, which of course was Sherman's at the London End.
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Tomash, is your interest in the coaching literature which is extensive (and unknown to me except for its end in Dickens) or in this painting and print? I think the answer to the J. Hall question, if it is to be found will be found in books rather than on line. But books on coaching or coaching prints?

Of course there's an overlap. I do wonder if this coach really carried J. Hall and the 'funerary device' (or if it was painted like this for an event or even just appeared in the painting / print.

A wild thought - presumably a wealthy person could hire a coach to transport a coffin or at least the mourners and commemorate this in a painting!!

Birmingham Art Gallery (BMAG) has a print room. Specialist dealers in prints often research their wares - this particular print doesn't seem especially valuable though.
 
Stokkie said:
Tomash, is your interest in the coaching literature which is extensive (and unknown to me except for its end in Dickens) or in this painting and print? I think the answer to the J. Hall question, if it is to be found will be found in books rather than on line. But books on coaching or coaching prints?

Of course there's an overlap. I do wonder if this coach really carried J. Hall and the 'funerary device' (or if it was painted like this for an event or even just appeared in the painting / print.

A wild thought - presumably a wealthy person could hire a coach to transport a coffin or at least the mourners and commemorate this in a painting!!

Birmingham Art Gallery (BMAG) has a print room. Specialist dealers in prints often research their wares - this particular print doesn't seem especially valuable though.
Click to expand...
Dear Stokkie, my interest is amateur research and modelling. I should say assisting in modelling. I'm providing a friend with historical details for a model of the wonder. Thus the focus on the livery details. Really appreciate your help. Cheers Tom
 
Tomash said:
Dear Stokkie, my interest is amateur research and modelling. I should say assisting in modelling. I'm providing a friend with historical details for a model of the wonder. Thus the focus on the livery details. Really appreciate your help. Cheers Tom
Click to expand...
Dear Tom,
Thanks for explaining. Perhaps a couple of days looking a books of coaching prints in a library (like Birmingham Library if you are near) might bring the secret? But a great subject for a model. Good luck!
Derek
 
The Bookseller, Nov 1957, informs of book “The Regency Road” Collection of 66 colour plates valuable record of the Great age of coaching..
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