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The Ratpan Trinity Road Aston

A

Astonian

gone but not forgotten
hi guys ;
just wondering whether anybody recalls the pub with the nick named the rat pan on the bottom of bevinton rd aston
and trinity rd just along from the villa ;
and does any body recall its proper name in years gone by and is it still there i wonder by beacon hill ;
its proper name was the LOWER UPLANDS HOTEL;
I learnt this from and old lady by the name of jean whom lived afew doors from it she lie me is a true astonian ;
we chatted for hours about aston in pre war years and right through she was thrilled to meet some one like mewhom could relate and remember
the area very well; i must admitt i was also thrilled to meet her and i told her of our wonderful sight and said we should have more people on here
her friend whom came to see got invoved her name was pearl; and peter both from old sandy lane aston ;
by the vine pub ; on lichfield rd [ incidently if anyu body knows or not the vine is up for letting ;
she also recalls dyson hall ; and it worked out we both attended the sunday school every sunday afternoon ;
and she also recalls miss rice whom was the class instrustione and my choir mistress ;
well i was thrilled i mixed bussiness with pleasure yesterday ;and i shall be meeting up again with them soon ;
incidently i met another friend of theres his name was geoffrey he told mehe was part of a reunion for upper thomas street and used to meet at the barton arm; but he said eventualy the members whom attend the barton arms dropped off veryfew started to go as they slowly dropped off ;
still thats another story ; ;
so does any body recall the rat pan;she saidit got its nick name beause all the rat catchers used to meet up there and have a drink at the end of there day ; best wishes astonian;;
 
Hi Alan,

first the real name of the pub was The Upper Grounds Hotel. Apparently there were the Upper Grounds and the Lower Grounds along Trinity Road, both being some kind of amusement park or so I understand. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I read somewhere that the Lower Grounds eventually became Villa Park.

I remember the Ratpan very well. My mother was born at her parents' house 22 Bevington Road, a few steps away, but her father was not a drinker and wouldn't have crossed the threshhold of the Ratpan for a pension! The Ratpan had a bad reputation locally, even in those days. At one time the gaffer was a Mr Billy Beer! Another former gaffer was Harry Harman, whose family my parents and grandparents knew.

The story I heard about the origin of the name Ratpan was that in days gone by rat-catchers were paid so much for each rat they caught, and whoever paid them did so at the Upper Grounds where he counted the corpses and coughed up accordingly. Whether this story is true or not, I don't know, but it's what my dad reckoned.

My dad used the Ratpan for many years, and he garaged his car in the old stables at the back. Many's the time he came home with news of yet another punch-up. I went in maybe twice, and after that kept away. There is a local legend that when Eric Houghton was manager of Aston Villa in the 1950's, he had to go and fetch a few of the players from the Ratpan on a Saturday lunch-time to get them ready for the match. I won't name names, but my dad knew one or two of them quite well. There are lots of tales about the Ratpan from days of yore, and maybe some of them are even true!
There was a tripe and cow-heel shop on the opposite corner, which you could smell in Perry Barr, and I do remember my dad saying that the gaffer at the Ratpan banned anything from that shop being brought into his pub. Where the shop was is now a health-centre, I believe. Another good story my dad told was of an old couple having a drink in the Ratpan one night, when the old woman collapsed. Someone called an ambulance, and the gaffer at the time produced a tot of brandy for her. As she was being wheeled out into the ambulance, the gaffer tapped her husband on the shoulder and said, "That'll be eightpence for the brandy, mate!" If that tale is true, then typical of pub gaffers in 'the old days'!
Another occasional client was, or so I'm told, the infamous Father Crean from the Sacred Heart up Witton Road.

The Ratpan gradually turned into an Asian drinking-spot. I think the building's still there, but the last time I drove past, maybe 2 years ago, it was closed.

Thanks for jogging my memory, Alan. I'm sure you'll hear about the Ratpan from lots of posters.

All the best,

Big Gee
 
Pete spent his twenty first birthday there and was so drunk he left his presents. They were still there the next day. I went in there a couple of times as a sort of friends mom and dad ran it at that time. Her name was Margaret but I can't remember her sir name?. It will come to me later when I am not trying to recall it [I hope]. Big Gee Father Craen's name pops up everywhere. Even in Bewdley the other day.
 
hi jean;
nice to hear your memorys of the pan ; the lady in question lived in bevington rd she was born thereso she will have great storys
i will be going to grt barr to a customer whom this lady is a friend whom i met yesterday ; i will asked whatno ofbevinton rd she lived i will come back later
have a nice day ; alan ;;
 
Hi Alan

A couple of shots of the Ratpan (Upper Grounds) for you.

Phil
 

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Popped in there many times before K.O. singing Villa songs what I would call a proper pub and the beer was good to.
Wonder how old it would be?
 
Jean, what's the story with Father Crean and Bewdley? Love to know! I'd think he knew all the pubs in Aston and Witton if half the tales about him are true. We know a lady who used to teach at Sacred Heart - she knew him years ago and never denied any of the stories about him.

I'd hazard a guess and say that the Ratpan dates from around 1900.

Big Gee
 
Big Gee. We were having a quiet drink in a pub [as one does] when the subject of Witton Road and the Sacred Heart Church came up. Within a couple of minutes Father Craen's name came up. Very well know was Father Craen and you know the story of Pete's dad?????. Jean.
 
Hi Jean,

it sounds like old Father Crean was legendary all across the Midlands. Yes, I do know the story of Pete's dad! Can you imagine what the reaction would be today???

Big Gee
 
I remember the gents name in the pub was Tom ?????? who went to the school and said the father was always tipsy even during the day. If what happened to Pete's dad was today he wouldn't have had the chance to run down the road with his cassock above his head he probably would have been decked?.
 
Big Gee said:
Hi Alan,

first the real name of the pub was The Upper Grounds Hotel. Apparently there were the Upper Grounds and the Lower Grounds along Trinity Road, both being some kind of amusement park or so I understand. I'm not 100% sure, but I think I read somewhere that the Lower Grounds eventually became Villa Park.

I remember the Ratpan very well. My mother was born at her parents' house 22 Bevington Road, a few steps away, but her father was not a drinker and wouldn't have crossed the threshhold of the Ratpan for a pension! The Ratpan had a bad reputation locally, even in those days. At one time the gaffer was a Mr Billy Beer! Another former gaffer was Harry Harman, whose family my parents and grandparents knew.

The story I heard about the origin of the name Ratpan was that in days gone by rat-catchers were paid so much for each rat they caught, and whoever paid them did so at the Upper Grounds where he counted the corpses and coughed up accordingly. Whether this story is true or not, I don't know, but it's what my dad reckoned.

My dad used the Ratpan for many years, and he garaged his car in the old stables at the back. Many's the time he came home with news of yet another punch-up. I went in maybe twice, and after that kept away. There is a local legend that when Eric Houghton was manager of Aston Villa in the 1950's, he had to go and fetch a few of the players from the Ratpan on a Saturday lunch-time to get them ready for the match. I won't name names, but my dad knew one or two of them quite well. There are lots of tales about the Ratpan from days of yore, and maybe some of them are even true!
There was a tripe and cow-heel shop on the opposite corner, which you could smell in Perry Barr, and I do remember my dad saying that the gaffer at the Ratpan banned anything from that shop being brought into his pub. Where the shop was is now a health-centre, I believe. Another good story my dad told was of an old couple having a drink in the Ratpan one night, when the old woman collapsed. Someone called an ambulance, and the gaffer at the time produced a tot of brandy for her. As she was being wheeled out into the ambulance, the gaffer tapped her husband on the shoulder and said, "That'll be eightpence for the brandy, mate!" If that tale is true, then typical of pub gaffers in 'the old days'!
Another occasional client was, or so I'm told, the infamous Father Crean from the Sacred Heart up Witton Road.

The Ratpan gradually turned into an Asian drinking-spot. I think the building's still there, but the last time I drove past, maybe 2 years ago, it was closed.

Thanks for jogging my memory, Alan. I'm sure you'll hear about the Ratpan from lots of posters.

All the best,

Big Gee
Click to expand...

Realise that I am coming to this discussion very late (5 years) but felt that I would like to add a little in case anyone is still interested.
My great grandfather used to drink in the Ratpan (too much from what we know). His name was James Loach and he lived opposite at 171 Trinity Rd from about 1885, where he had a taxi business. Originally horse drawn Hansome Cabs, later motor vehicles. I have included a photo, taken in about 1912 when son Horace was proprietor of the business.

SteveJH
 

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This brought memories flooding back! My dad was a big drinker in there for many years as it wasn't too far to stagger back to our house near by.

I used to occasionally use it but that was many years ago and it was always a rough place and not for the faint hearted!
 
Does anyone know if the The Upper Grounds was called the White Swan back in the 1930s. The attached photo was posted on Old Pics of Brum Facebook group and we are trying to locate it. The poster believes it would be somewhere near Villa Park as his father is in the photo and lived in the area in the 1930s. The structure of the building in the attachment looks similar to photos of The Upper Grounds posted earlier in this thread. The windows are different, but it is possible that new windows were put in the decades after the 1930s photos. Aston White Swan - perhas Upper Grounds Trinity Road.jpg
 
i would say the upper grounds and the white swan are not the same pubs richard..not unless they got rid of that lovely filigree designs under the M and B sign...cant quite make out the landlords name in your photo which could make it easier to find out...having said that it could well have been called the white swan as you say alterations could have been carried out over the years...be interesting to find out

lyn
 
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If the name on top right of the photo is the landlord's name then it might be Frank Hendry or Frank Hindley or something close to that. Difficult as it is blurry.
 
yes richard i think you are correct about the first name being frank ...we have a couple of members who are very good at doing the kellys look ups so fingers crossed this can be solved

lyn
 
I know it's quite a distance away, but could it be The White Swan Legge Street that was over Gosta Green way. In the 30's the Landlord was Frank Hendley Couzens and it looks like there is part of that sign in the photo that we can't see so it might be possible.
 
Have looked at Kellys for 1932,1933,1936,1937,1938 & 1939, and no landlord with surname Hendry or hindley , or Henderson (which i thought it might be)
 
Phil said:
I know it's quite a distance away, but could it be The White Swan Legge Street that was over Gosta Green way. In the 30's the Landlord was Frank Hendley Couzens and it looks like there is part of that sign in the photo that we can't see so it might be possible.
Click to expand...

phil you could well be right..

mike was the upper grounds called the upper grounds during the 30s

lyn
 
thanks mike so that confirms that the upper grounds has never been called the white swan..phils idea could well be correct
 
The first Upper Grounds entry I can find in the trade directory is 1903, there is no entry in 1901. So it looks as if it has always been The Upper Grounds.
 
The Ratpan was always The Upper Grounds, never any other name as far as I know. Billy Beer was still the landlord for a few years after the end of the War, and one of his barmen was Harry Harman, a friend of my parents. As I said in an early post on this thread, my dad was a regular there for many years, and even at one time garaged his car in the former stables at the back of the pub. I never set foot in the place!

G
 
thanks G tomorrow i will go through my pub photos to see if i have one of a white swan that matches up with the one on post 16

lyn
 
Phil said:
I know it's quite a distance away, but could it be The White Swan Legge Street that was over Gosta Green way. In the 30's the Landlord was Frank Hendley Couzens and it looks like there is part of that sign in the photo that we can't see so it might be possible.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil. Excellent detective work. What would be nice now is if someone could produce a photo that they know is of the White Swan Legge Street
 
Richard McNeill said:
Thanks Phil. Excellent detective work. What would be nice now is if someone could produce a photo that they know is of the White Swan Legge Street
Click to expand...
The mystery of the location of the White Swan has been solved. The original poster (to facebook), Thomas Neale, thought the photo on post 16 was taken near Villa Park because he believed his late father (who is a child in the photo) lived near Villa Park in the 1930s. I supplied him with the information provided by Phil and others on this forum and he discussed it with his mother. She confirmed that in the 1930s his father did not live near Villa Park but lived in ..... Legge Street!
Thomas and I would like to thank everyone on here who contributed to solving this little mystery.

P.S. Still looking for photos of the White Swan Legge Street, or failing that any old photos of Legge Street. Thanks.
 
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Richard

I'm sure we were all glad to be of some assistance, sorry although I have 17 photos of pubs called the "White Swan" in and around Birmingham none of them are of the White Swan in Legge Street, perhaps someone else will have better luck.
 
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