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The Old Crown Inn Deritend

  • Thread starter Thread starter O.C.
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O.C.

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The Old Crown Digbeth one of Brums best know pubs which people seem to have a love hate relationship with.........they love the look of the place and the history (incidentally I have the complete history) but today its for the tourist and does not seem a place were you would go as a regular
but the place has to make money or will shut ( I have been going on and off for 30 years as I worked nearby) and seen the fall and rise of the Old Crown....from a pub to a derelict ...and to a pub again but have they got it right ?
Directly under the sign on the Old Crown ( in the middle of the building) in the old days you could ride a horse right into the stables in the courtyard
 

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What lovely photos ............even better since I discovered that when my grand parents married they were living in Heath Mill Lane. Can I use it for my records?
 
Old Crown

Great photo...although I have never been in the old crown..I did work at
Haddon & Stokes which was opposite the Crown so saw it from the the office window each day from the office window...
Margaret.
 
it was lovely to see the picture of the old crown,my gran who was born in 1898 was a barmaid there when she was about 17 years old and she used to tell me stories (wish I could remember them) also when she married she lived with her family at the back of the pub in the the clock shop yard my mom and her 5 brothers ,my gran and grandad !! thanks for the memory.:):):)
 
Cromwell,

On your first post, do you know how old the 2nd photo is.

My Step-4th Great Grandfather ran the pub from about 1851-58. His name was Thomas Dayson. When he died, it past to my 4th Great Grandmother, who was innkeeper for a year before she retired. My 3rd Great Grandmother, Lavinia Wyatt, worked as a bar maid there in 1851, before she married James Henry Knight, who was the son of James Knight who used to run the Pork Butcher's next door.

The Census's show that Samuel Knight, who was James's elder brother, and also married James's widow, lived there to at least 1861. Is there a chance that the picture could be around this time as I think (but I may be mistaken), that the Butcher's shop is show on the corner of Heath Mill Lane.

Could I also save a copy of the picture's for my own records?

Stephen
 
apologies if this one has been posted before but i just thought it was a lovely pic of the old crown..digbeth taken in the winter dated 1938..

astoness:)

courtesy of carl chinns birmingham lives.
 

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What a lovely picture. I know the old crown building because about 30 years ago I worked in part of this old building which was adjoining the pub and was offices. I don't think there was a level floor in the place they were all so sloping. Don't know if its true but I heard there were underground passages going right across to the bull ring. Anyway I'm going off the point what a really lovely picture. Thanks
Rustie
 
hi rustie..glad you liked the pic and thanks for your memories....i keep meaning to go in there again as it must be a good 25 years since i was last there...the bit about the underground passages sounds interesting... maybe one of our pub experts can put us right...

astoness:)
 
I have photographs of the inside from when we played there on Friday nights in the late fifties, mostly pick up bands with Gordon Bostock on trumpet
 
hi all...just found this pic of the crown lookin the other way 1937

astoness

courtesy of carl chinn birm lives
 

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The Old Crown now serves very good lunches.
During it's refurbishment,I was told by someone who worked on it,they went down the underground passage,it leads to somewhere near the Irish centre.
 
the old crown..high st digbeth
 

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The Old Crown,Digbeth.Not sure of the date though.
 

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The pictures are great but the opening one is a stunner. Must be about 1900 and occasionally we get a glimpse of peripheral subjects, as we do on this occasion of buildings down Heathmill Lane. Cobbles and tramlines. Thanks both. I wonder if that bollard is a cannon captured at Trafalgar.
 
I think that you can just see the Viaduct on the left possibly. All of this was there and valid at the time...not just an occasional old building that we have now. Nelson was a favourite of Brummies and he may have been looking at the serious end of one of those old cannons at one time or another. It would be less than a hundred years since the cannons were captured and only forty or so since other cannons dueled at Gettysburg. Heck...the second world war is further away from us now. Time seems to be becoming more compressed to me.
 
I'd say Keegs photo looks about 1960s - Mini parked outside. Agree with Rupert about the first photo that it's great to see a tantalizing snippet of Heathmill Lane. Also like the sign on the Crown saying " Families supplied at wholesale terms" Bet they'd have to buy a fair stock of whiskies and brandies to qualify for those terms! Thanks for posting Lyn. Viv.
 
From reading...this was originally a guild hall and may have been one of Birminghams first schools. On the opposite corner was a library.
 
As a guildhall that would make sense Rupert. The style and dimensions of the building appear quite grand given the time it was built. I'd be interested to see the interior as I've never been in the place. If anyone has any interior photos or pictures I'd be interested to see them. Viv.
 
hi viv if you go to the old crown meet up thread there are lots of interior pics as we were given a tour of the rooms upstairs a couple of years back...oh and ive just remembered that there are few pics of us members in the stocks...lol..

lyn
 
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This is a very early photo of the Crown if the date is to be believed 1857 and I believe that is about as early as commercial photos get. It shows the crown as a series of shops and I don't think one of them is a pub.

Phil
Replacement photo which I am pretty sure is same as original
DeritendCrown1857.jpg

Deritend%20Crown 1857.jpg
 
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Phil
Certainly J A Wheeler & Solomon Wilkes were listed there in 1855 and 1858. Can;t fit the Thomas xxx to the right of the Crown name . the landlord in 1855 was
Thomas Dayson, so maybe that was it, though it doesn't look like Dayson to me. There is a Thomas Franks , furniture broker at 183, but I reckon that would be too far along to be shown in the photo.
mike
 
Amazing how good some of the early photo's are. If that is 1857 then it is clear that the Old Crown was very old then. It's history is not clear and it was probably modified and refurbished even by this time. The overhanging portico though seems to suggest that it may have been used to offload things from wagons and they possibly may have been beer barrels. I am not sure but think that the Golden Lion had a similar appendage. I would have thought that deliveries would have been out back though. Anyway, if a guild hall at one time, that may have moved to the Guild Hall Of The Holy Cross in New Street (don't remember when...1500s or so?)....well that later building was gone way before this time to be replaced by two buildings by 1857...and yet the Old Crown still stood as it's no doubt refurbished version does today. Still very much the same landmark that Shakespeare might have seen. Surely he must have visited Brum on occasion. Maybe he stayed at the actors temple on Temple Row; if it was there in his day.
 
Is the Old Crown still there? I did a few gigs at the pub in the 50s with the 'Johnny Kaula' band,Lots of laffs! Hawiian music in an old English pub! We all wore the shirts and even had a hula girl. John Crump OldBrit Parker. Co USA
 
oldbrit said:
Is the Old Crown still there?
Click to expand...

Yes it's still there. The Old Crown official website


The Old Crown, Digbeth by ell brown, on Flickr

The Old Crown Inn was built in the late 15th century by the Guild of St John the Baptist of Deritend, one of the two guilds in Birmingham, religious orders to which only the town's richest citizens could belong. Such guilds flourished as a link between the church and secular society, and as well as spiritual support provided members with a form of social security and welfare benefit. This building was originally the Guildhall, where members of the guild met and prayed, and was also a school for the children of the guild members. The Guildhall was timber-built, infilled with wattle and daub, and the original ground floor contains a large meeting hall and smaller master's room. The building was turned into an inn in the 19th century, and has recently been restored.
Click to expand...

Above info from Walks Through History: Birmingham by John Wilks

186, 187 and 188, Birmingham

HIGH STREET
1.
5104
Deritend B12
The Old Crown Public House
and Nos 186, 187 and 188
(formerly listed as Crown
Inn)
SP 08 NE 7/54 25.4.52
II*
2.
Claimed to date from 1368 but more probably early C16. Timber framed with plaster
infill; tile roof. Two storeys (and always so), the upper one jettied; 5 bays, the
centre on an advanced and gabled porch wing, coved and carried on simple modillion
brackets, the outer 2 with larger though less advanced gables with carved bressummers.
The ground floor with a central large entrance, public house windows on the left and 2
shop windows and doors on the right. First floor windows all C19 3-light each outer
gable and one either side of the porch.



Listing NGR: SP0801886323​
Source: English Heritage
Listed building text is © Crown Copyright. Reproduced under licence: PSI Click-use licence number C2008002006.
Click to expand...
 
This Guildhall may have been in Aston when built...on the side of the Rea that it is. Perhaps the reason for the other one in Birmingham. The boundaries changed over time.
 
Phil
As i have stated before, the date on some of the earlier directories are sometimes not exactly correct, but, in the 1855 post office directory Solomon Wilkes is a stone mason in Heath mill lane, and Joseph wheeler a butcher at 186 High st deritend . However in Slaters 1852 directory ther is no Joseph wheeler butcher mentioned and Solomon wilkes, stone mason is listed as at 33 Green St (the other side of deritend). Although the uncertainty of the dates of the directories doesn't make it definite, this would seem to give some support to the 1857 date
mike
 
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