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Streets where John Pope dairyman lived

glynee

Brummie babby
I am trying to track the whereabouts of John Pope. John was born in Stoke St Gregory, Somerset in 1836 and was an older brother of my Great Grandma Charlotte Chappell Pope (later Chase).

After his father died his mother Eliza moved to East Stonehouse in Devon where in 1859 she married Charles Pearce and for some reason John moved to Birmingham in or before 1859.

It seems that John may have applied to join the Civil Service because on 6 December 1859 Eliza signed a CS “declaration of evidence” of his age. His address on the declaration is given as 10 Skinner Street, Birmingham.

John appears in the 1861 Census living at “6 Hse Ct, 8 Kent Street” in Birmingham. His occupation was “Letter Carrier” in modern parlance a postman. He had by now married Caroline Perkins of Kidderminster.

In the 1871 Census John is living at 2 Larches Street in Birmingham and his occupation is “Dairy Man”. Living with him is Caroline and their five children. Also in the household is Jane Hill aged 20 and a Domestic Servant so John seems to have done well for himself.

In the 1881 Census John was living at 109 Highgate Street, Aston, Warwickshire. He is still a “Dairyman”. Also listed are Caroline and four children. The family has a servant, Miriam Brazier who is 16 and who was born in Birmingham.

I can’t find any of the four addresses above on a modern map, so assume they have become victims of redevelopment, so any help I finding them would be gratefully received.

As the family had a servant in 1871 and 1881 I wonder if John owned a dairy. Any ideas where I might find a relevant trade directory or other information would again be gratefully received.

Many thanks.
 
Below are three maps showing 10 Skinner St in red, court 8 Kent St (No 6 would be one of the ones at the ends of the block of three at the back of the yard) in green and 2 Larches St in blue. In the 1873 White's directory no 2 Larches at was occupied by John Chappell Pope, cowkeeper (which I think is the same as dairyman).

map_c_1889_showing_no_10__skinner_st.jpg


map_c_1889_showing_court_8_Kent_St.jpg


map_c_1889_showing_2_Larches_St.jpg
 
From the 1879 till the 1884 Post Office directory John is listed as cowkeeper at 109 Highgate St . However he has gone by 1888, but a John Pope & Sons are listed as nurserymen, seedsmen & florists at 120,121. 122, 178,179,189,181 Market Hall, & 3 Great Western Arcade, and Kings Norton, but am not sure if this is the same one.
The c 1889 map below shows 109 Highgate St in red.

map_c_1889_showing_109_Highgate_st.jpg
 
Thank you so much Mike. That has certainly filled in some gaps. It could be John Pope & Sons the nurseryman is 'my' John as he had sons. Also he married Caroline Perkins in 1860 in Kings Norton.
 
The entry for Pope & Sons remained the same till 1895, though Kings Norton is modified to Middleton Hall Road, Kings Norton
Then in 1896-1899 the Gt Western Arcade address was replaced by 5,6 & 7 Phillips St.
Then in 1900 the Phillips St address disappeared.
Between 1904 & 1908 it became 120-122 Market Hall & Middleton Hall Road
In 1910 it was 120-122 Market Hall & Smithfield Vegetable Market,
In 1912 they have disappeared and 120-122 Market Hall is apparently vacant
 
I am not sure that the Pope and sons refers to the same person. See extract below from the gardener's magazine of 1832. Ancestry also shows a John, Caroline, Edgar, William and Ernest Pope all listed in New Zealand. I can't access those records as I do not have worldwide membership
John Pope.jpg

Janice
 
This is much appreciated Janice. John and Caroline did have sons named Edgar (born c1863), William (born 1868) and Ernest (born 1870) so the NZ listing could be them - or a huge coincidence. I'm going to take advantage of Find My Past's free weekend to trace the family. I am hoping that there may be some descendants still in the Birmingham area and that I could get to meet them. I live in Cheltenham so not a stretch to meet up plus my youngest son lives in Galton Road so I can always use his sofabed!!
Thanks again
Glyn
 
Thanks for this Mike, but Janice seems to have proved that the market gardening Popes were established long before John Pope made his way from Somerset to Birmingham.
I do appreciate your help.
Glyn
 
Hi Glynn.
The other reason I wondered about NZ was because I could find them on 1881 census but then not afterwards. It seems strange if they were all missing from the later censuses. There is also a Selina on the NZ list - too much of a coincidence surely? The only one I could not see was the youngest Arthur. Good hunting.
Janice
 
Afternoon Janice
I took advantage of Find My Past's free weekend and found that John and his family sailed on the Arawa on 18 November 1884 arriving in NZ on Christmas Eve 1884. They settled in Invercargill and John appears on a couple of Electoral Rolls. Invercargill City Council website has a cemetery/grave index and I found John Chappel Pope buried 25 June 1917, Caroline his wife buried 6 March 1924 and two of his sons - Willie buried 9 May 1945 & Arthur buried 21 April 1962 and daughter Selina buried 15 \October 1951.

I also found the Birmingham Daily Post of 11 October 1884 in which his property at 109 Highgate Street is up for auction. His dairy was known as The Colmore Dairy.

None of which I would have found out but for your post. My next step is to get in touch with Invercargill City Council and ask them if there are any other local records online as it would great to be in touch with any descendants of John & Caroline. And also to se if anyone on this forum has knowledge of The Colmore Dairy.

Many thanks once again for your help
Glyn
 
It is good to hear that you have found out lots of information and I was glad to help. Thanks for letting me know.

Janice
 
Janice & Mike
Again thanks for all your help a year or so ago. Just to let you know that I'm now in touch with a descendant of John who lives in New Zealand. John died in June 1917 and his wife Caroline in March 1928.
 
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