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Stonehouse Lane, California / Quinton

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nzpoppy

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I’m trying to find a photograph of a shop that was in existence in California, Birmingham 32 around the 1950’s for an elderly friend (Olive Rose) who is having her 90th birthday this month. I thought it would make a great present. Her family had owned the shop before she took over running it. When Olive and her family subsequently emigrated to New Zealand in 1956 it was still a shop, but we believe it has since been turned back into houses.

The shop was called Roses’ Grocery Store and it was at 165 Stonehouse Lane, California, Birmingham 32. It had a little ditty above the door which read something like “roses are red, violets are blue .... let us deliver to you”

Does anyone know of the existance of a photograph of this shop or does anyone have any photos from the 1940's to 1950's of the area.

Otherwise can anyone suggest where else I might enquire to see if I can track one down? Any help is appreciated.
 
Hi Dingerer. Thanks for the picture. Yes unfortunately it is partly a coincidence but like most things there is a story to tell around it!
It turns out that Olive's father (Wheeler) was the superintendant of the brick works and his office was above Roses' cafe (shown in the picture). It appears that Roses' cafe was a little local feud between Olive and the person who owned the cafe. Olive by that time was trading as Roses' Grocery Store of California (the store was previously known as Wheelers - but I'm not certain wether it was a grocery store or not) and the person who owned the cafe chose to call her cafe Roses' too - much to Olive's disgust apparently! Haven't got all the gossip on it yet but Olive's children were telling me that they were forbidden to go into the cafe or even sit on the cafe steps (which was apparently a big hang out place for all their friends) because apparently - Olive (their mother) told them that hanging out around there was not appropriate behaviour for the Superintendants family (!) though their neighbour told them - it was because their mother didn't want any opportunity for others to think that their family was associated with the cafe. Isn't local gossip great! :D Thanks for continuing to look for me. Cheers NZPoppy
 
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I remember there was a grocery store in Stonehouse Lane. It was nearer Jiggins Lane than Barnes Hill. It was almost opposite Bartley Green Girls school which was probably built in the 1950's. It may even have been a post office. Was it called Stonehouse Stores, I'm not sure now.
 
There was a grocery shop on Barns Hill opposit the California. I was often sent there by my mother for one thing or another and was always facinated when the meat slicer was used I . It was the last but one shop going up Barnes Hill. There was a sweet shop and an ironmongers along the same row. The shop at the end was a green grocers I think and was later turned into a chip shop
 
The grocery shop in Stonehouse lane opposite the Stonehouse pub was run by Billy Hooper. And there was a shop repair shop next to that and on the other side of Billys grocery shop were a couple of cottages. Behind was the Ward sisters large house
 
Only just come across this thread. We (local history group) don't have a photo of Rose's shop. I remember it well as when we first moved on to Woodgate Valley we used to buy our bread from there. If my memory isn't failing weren't there 2 sides to the shop? The memories of Stonehouse Lane (Wheeler - brickworks, etc) are fascinating, it would be great to learn more.
 
Hiya came across your post while looking for photos of my grandads shop as though they would be a nice suprise for my nan lucy hooper who is now 95 and was just wondering if you had any photos or memories about billy hoopers shop as William hooper was my grandad but the famous shop was long gone when I was born and hearing about it still fascinates me thanx for your time john
 
Hi..i am a new member to this site and have been trying to trace my family history and came across the above threads.My Great grandfather {according to my baby book!!} was JAMES WHEELER-BRICKWORKER-FOREMAN.BORN APPROX 1872 WOODGATE QUINTON AND DIED AGE 54.HE WAS MARRIED TO MARY WARNER-BORN AT BARTLEY GREEN AND DIED 1924.My grandfather ARTHUR FIRMAN -BORN1896-and family lived in Stonehouse Lane.
I would be most grateful for any links anyone could post.THANK YOU
 
Hi..i am a new member to this site and have been trying to trace my family history and came across the above threads.My Great grandfather {according to my baby book!!} was JAMES WHEELER-BRICKWORKER-FOREMAN.BORN APPROX 1872 WOODGATE QUINTON AND DIED AGE 54.HE WAS MARRIED TO MARY WARNER-BORN AT BARTLEY GREEN AND DIED 1924.My grandfather ARTHUR FIRMAN -BORN1896-and family lived in Stonehouse Lane.
I would be most grateful for any links anyone could post.THANK YOU

Bev, have only recently taken a look at the forum and saw the above. Hopefully you have been able to enlarge on your family history but thought you might be interested to know that we (Bartley Green District History Group) have a photo of your gt. grandfather James Wheeler. The dates we have for James are a little different than yours. In 1911 James is aged 52 a Clay Miner brn Harborne (birth c.1859) and wife Mary 53 born Blackheath. They had been married 30 years, had 14 children, 4 of whom died. James and Mary are buried in St. Michael & All Angels churchyard, Bartley Green. James in 1916 aged 56 and Mary in 1924 aged 66. James married Mary WORTEN in December 1881 at St. Laurence Church, Northfield.
 
THANK YOU so very much for spending the time to reply. I m absolutely amazed by the information you have forwarded. I have now recently purchased a book on Bartley Green history that shows pictures of JAMES WHEELER which I have shown to all the family, all are staggered to see the pictures!!!!Through my research ,I had discovered that JAMES WHEELER was buried in St.Michael and All Angels churchyard, Bartley Green but had no idea that Mary his wife was also there!
Again, so grateful for all your efforts and this forum.
Kind regards.
 
THANK YOU so very much for spending the time to reply. I m absolutely amazed by the information you have forwarded. I have now recently purchased a book on Bartley Green history that shows pictures of JAMES WHEELER which I have shown to all the family, all are staggered to see the pictures!!!!Through my research ,I had discovered that JAMES WHEELER was buried in St.Michael and All Angels churchyard, Bartley Green but had no idea that Mary his wife was also there!
Again, so grateful for all your efforts and this forum.
Kind regards.

Yes, that is the photo we have of James Wheeler, I'd forgotten we had put it in the book.
12 of James and Mary's children were baptised at St. Michael & All Angels and the four that died, mentioned in the 1911 census, are also buried in the churchyard. That is 1896 (Edith) Caroline aged 4mths, 1897 (James) Henry aged 10mths when the family were living in Jiggins Lane and 1903 Albert aged 13 days, 1905 Charlotte aged 12 yrs. living at 11 California. There are no memorials.

Your surname caught my eye as during the WW1 commemorations (for those men on our war memorial) we were looking for descendants of William FIRMAN whose family lived in Jiggins Lane. I've just pulled out the file again - is your father Kenneth? Your grandfather Arthur was brother to William who was KIA. Your granddad and two of his brothers are listed on the 1918 Absent Voters List (Arthur, Sidney and Alfred). Small world !! Their parents James and Eliza are also buried in St. Michael's churchyard.
Regards
 
Hi there again to master brummie….wow ..can t thank you enough for even more information! Once you start this journey its absolutely amazing what comes to light. Again ,I greatly appreciate your time and efforts.
Yes, my father is KENNETH FIRMAN and it now appears your information is correct and WILLIAM FIRMAN as commemorated on Bartley Greens War memorial is my GREAT UNCLE.!
I now plan to visit Barley Green and hopefully St.Michaels churchyard etc this summer to pay my respects on behalf of all the family.
Kind regards
 
Hi there again to master brummie….wow ..can t thank you enough for even more information! Once you start this journey its absolutely amazing what comes to light. Again ,I greatly appreciate your time and efforts.
Yes, my father is KENNETH FIRMAN and it now appears your information is correct and WILLIAM FIRMAN as commemorated on Bartley Greens War memorial is my GREAT UNCLE.!
I now plan to visit Barley Green and hopefully St.Michaels churchyard etc this summer to pay my respects on behalf of all the family.
Kind regards

Don't know if you are familiar with Bartley Green, the churchyard is in Field Lane and the 'new' St. Michael's on the corner of Field Lane/Romsley Road where the War Memorial is. I know he isn't a direct relative of yours but thought you might like this photo of William Firman that was taken from the WW1 memorial at Cadbury's where he worked. The house the family lived in is still standing in Jiggins Lane.Cadburys Wm Firman edited (2a).jpg
 
With grateful thanks again to L-Local history master brummie for all the communications and now seeing an actual photograph of WILLIAM FIRMAN my Great Uncle ……This has been an emotional journey in discovering so much about his life and learning of the connections to my family of Bartley Green and St.Michaels and All Angels Church.
 
This photo was taken on Stonehouse Lane in 1975 sometime after the demolision of Roses, Café.
 

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Hi Dingerer. Thanks for the picture. Yes unfortunately it is partly a coincidence but like most things there is a story to tell around it!
It turns out that Olive's father (Wheeler) was the superintendant of the brick works and his office was above Roses' cafe (shown in the picture). It appears that Roses' cafe was a little local feud between Olive and the person who owned the cafe. Olive by that time was trading as Roses' Grocery Store of California (the store was previously known as Wheelers - but I'm not certain wether it was a grocery store or not) and the person who owned the cafe chose to call her cafe Roses' too - much to Olive's disgust apparently! Haven't got all the gossip on it yet but Olive's children were telling me that they were forbidden to go into the cafe or even sit on the cafe steps (which was apparently a big hang out place for all their friends) because apparently - Olive (their mother) told them that hanging out around there was not appropriate behaviour for the Superintendants family (!) though their neighbour told them - it was because their mother didn't want any opportunity for others to think that their family was associated with the cafe. Isn't local gossip great! :D Thanks for continuing to look for me. Cheers NZPoppy
 
I remember there was a grocery store in Stonehouse Lane. It was nearer Jiggins Lane than Barnes Hill. It was almost opposite Bartley Green Girls school which was probably built in the 1950's. It may even have been a post office. Was it called Stonehouse Stores, I'm not sure now.
It was called, The Village Stores
 

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I remember there was a grocery store in Stonehouse Lane. It was nearer Jiggins Lane than Barnes Hill. It was almost opposite Bartley Green Girls school which was probably built in the 1950's. It may even have been a post office. Was it called Stonehouse Stores, I'm not sure now.
It was called Mill Stores & was our local little shop in the 1960's, I was born & lived in Stonehouse lane & my mom used to shop there,
I remember she bought butter, cut & wrapped in wax paper, & fresh cheese cut off a big block...Happy memories..
 
Nice memories to stumble in to unexpectedly ...

I remember the Mill Stores very well.

From the mid 50s to somewhere around mid '60s we lived in Middle Acre Road which is curvy- parallel to Stonehouse Lane and not far behind the Mill Stores, separated by a smallish run of open land back then probably not much more than 120/30 yards across if even that. Our house was pretty much directly across that open area from the MS, back garden facing back garden.

I remember there being a fairly large tree about half-way between, which was on the edge of a ditch that ran through the middle of the patch of land, seemed 6 feet deep or more back then but would no doubt have been 3 at the most. That's how childhood memories work, yes? And the tree permanently had a hefty rope hanging off an upper branch hanging out over the ditch, and was great fun to swing on from one side to the other ... or not-quite :)

I also remember that land as the safety margin when potting at targets in the back garden with my air rifle (thanks Dad!) hung on the wire fence at the bottom there, or objects stood on the posts there, or other things like clothes pegs on the washing line - I'd mostly pot at those from my bedroom window so that the pellets would be going sharply downward and would hit the ground perfectly safely in the garden.

I was happily plinking away and doing pretty well I thought, when one time Dad came out to watch and join in a bit too, and he just reminded me to be sure everything was safely placed with nothing behind that a miss might cause any damage to, especially when I was laying prone on the grass and so aiming a little upward at some things occasionally.

And I said something like "Yes Dad, I always do" hastily hoping that I always did ...

And with a chuckle Dad said "... because we wouldn't want to be breaking any of the Mill Stores' windows!" And in that second I remembered that just one time earlier there was still this one target, an empty cigarette packet still stuck from earlier on that bit of twisty wire where a mesh fence is secured to concrete posts, that I had taken a pot at after I was done with just the boring old bulls-eye target that I'd just placed on the ground and leaned against the fence for me to plink at lying prone .... which meant that to get the cigarette packet I must have been shooting a fair bit upward from there, and I'd had to put a good 3-4 shots through it before sending it flying off the bit of wire! I hope the windows survived!!

But back to the FRONT of the Mill Stores ...

I went to Lordswood Tech, so each morning would head toward either the #12 bus stop right at the end of Clapgate Lane on the corner of Stonehouse Lane and Stonehouse Grove right by where Jiggins Lane feeds in to it, or off in the opposite direction and get the #22 from Barnes Hill right at the end of "My" road, both heading to Harborne to get the 11 to the school gate or sometimes just walk.

However, going for the #12 had inbuilt tension lol, because from about half way to the stop I was in Mill Road (as in "Stores") and could easily see a long way back up along Jiggins Lane which was where the 12 would be coming down from Bartley Green ... and of course, I was always watching out in case I might suddenly need to run the rest of the way to make it in time because a bus had appeared at the top-end.

And it was very borderline if a bus did appear right at the moment I first was able to see to the furthest point there ... and it was near-impossible if it was already well toward the bottom turn! You could cut the tension with a knife, lol.

But I had a backup!

Two even, because firstly if beating it to the stop by sticking to the footpath looked doubtful, I could forget that and instead sprint a diagonal across a piece of open land between Mill Road and the bus stop corner, and very likely make it okay. And secondly, as an alternative to that but also WAY more appropriate if the bus was already a long way on towards the stop, I would sprint like mad and turn right at Stonehouse Lane instead of left, and dash to make the next bus-stop along which was ... right opposite the Mill Stores!

And the only question mark was whether the bus actually needed to stop at the first stop! If it did, then I'd definitely make it to Mill Stores stop in time, but if not and it just sailed past it without even slowing much other than for the bend, I had a race on my hands!

What I said earlier about the tension? Multiply by ten before the bus reached that first stop, then fifty if it went straight past without stopping and was bearing down on me from behind!

So yeah, The Mill Stores (named from which Mill? Anyone advise?) was absolutely a landmark for me, plus I would now and then be sent on an errand to buy something that might have been missed before, or just run out ... milk maybe or sugar or whatever. A bar of chocolate for going was always welcome too :)

And I preferred to go there rather than set out in the opposite direction and head to the little parade of shops on Barnes Hill just up from the #22 bus stop, because I had to pass a girlfriend's house on the way :) and sometimes I miiiiight be a little longer with the errand :)

Like I said, nice memories to stumble in to unexpectedly.

TQ
 
Nice memories to stumble in to unexpectedly ...

I remember the Mill Stores very well.

From the mid 50s to somewhere around mid '60s we lived in Middle Acre Road which is curvy- parallel to Stonehouse Lane and not far behind the Mill Stores, separated by a smallish run of open land back then probably not much more than 120/30 yards across if even that. Our house was pretty much directly across that open area from the MS, back garden facing back garden.

I remember there being a fairly large tree about half-way between, which was on the edge of a ditch that ran through the middle of the patch of land, seemed 6 feet deep or more back then but would no doubt have been 3 at the most. That's how childhood memories work, yes? And the tree permanently had a hefty rope hanging off an upper branch hanging out over the ditch, and was great fun to swing on from one side to the other ... or not-quite :)

I also remember that land as the safety margin when potting at targets in the back garden with my air rifle (thanks Dad!) hung on the wire fence at the bottom there, or objects stood on the posts there, or other things like clothes pegs on the washing line - I'd mostly pot at those from my bedroom window so that the pellets would be going sharply downward and would hit the ground perfectly safely in the garden.

I was happily plinking away and doing pretty well I thought, when one time Dad came out to watch and join in a bit too, and he just reminded me to be sure everything was safely placed with nothing behind that a miss might cause any damage to, especially when I was laying prone on the grass and so aiming a little upward at some things occasionally.

And I said something like "Yes Dad, I always do" hastily hoping that I always did ...

And with a chuckle Dad said "... because we wouldn't want to be breaking any of the Mill Stores' windows!" And in that second I remembered that just one time earlier there was still this one target, an empty cigarette packet still stuck from earlier on that bit of twisty wire where a mesh fence is secured to concrete posts, that I had taken a pot at after I was done with just the boring old bulls-eye target that I'd just placed on the ground and leaned against the fence for me to plink at lying prone .... which meant that to get the cigarette packet I must have been shooting a fair bit upward from there, and I'd had to put a good 3-4 shots through it before sending it flying off the bit of wire! I hope the windows survived!!

But back to the FRONT of the Mill Stores ...

I went to Lordswood Tech, so each morning would head toward either the #12 bus stop right at the end of Clapgate Lane on the corner of Stonehouse Lane and Stonehouse Grove right by where Jiggins Lane feeds in to it, or off in the opposite direction and get the #22 from Barnes Hill right at the end of "My" road, both heading to Harborne to get the 11 to the school gate or sometimes just walk.

However, going for the #12 had inbuilt tension lol, because from about half way to the stop I was in Mill Road (as in "Stores") and could easily see a long way back up along Jiggins Lane which was where the 12 would be coming down from Bartley Green ... and of course, I was always watching out in case I might suddenly need to run the rest of the way to make it in time because a bus had appeared at the top-end.

And it was very borderline if a bus did appear right at the moment I first was able to see to the furthest point there ... and it was near-impossible if it was already well toward the bottom turn! You could cut the tension with a knife, lol.

But I had a backup!

Two even, because firstly if beating it to the stop by sticking to the footpath looked doubtful, I could forget that and instead sprint a diagonal across a piece of open land between Mill Road and the bus stop corner, and very likely make it okay. And secondly, as an alternative to that but also WAY more appropriate if the bus was already a long way on towards the stop, I would sprint like mad and turn right at Stonehouse Lane instead of left, and dash to make the next bus-stop along which was ... right opposite the Mill Stores!

And the only question mark was whether the bus actually needed to stop at the first stop! If it did, then I'd definitely make it to Mill Stores stop in time, but if not and it just sailed past it without even slowing much other than for the bend, I had a race on my hands!

What I said earlier about the tension? Multiply by ten before the bus reached that first stop, then fifty if it went straight past without stopping and was bearing down on me from behind!

So yeah, The Mill Stores (named from which Mill? Anyone advise?) was absolutely a landmark for me, plus I would now and then be sent on an errand to buy something that might have been missed before, or just run out ... milk maybe or sugar or whatever. A bar of chocolate for going was always welcome too :)

And I preferred to go there rather than set out in the opposite direction and head to the little parade of shops on Barnes Hill just up from the #22 bus stop, because I had to pass a girlfriend's house on the way :) and sometimes I miiiiight be a little longer with the errand :)

Like I said, nice memories to stumble in to unexpectedly.

TQ
I remember the large hole/ deep ditch you are on about,my garden in Stonehouse lane (278)(from 1960 to 1975) backed onto the Marl hole (that's what my mom & dad called it), it was a landfill sight, underneath was lots of smelly rubbish, it was very gassy, and if you made a deep hole, it could be lit like a bunsen burner :scream: We used to build our bonfires on one on bonfire night :p
Up the field, a short walk to the right of our back garden was "The Big Hole" as we called it, where there was a big old tree, with a rope tied to it that we used to swing on, It sounds like we swung on the same rope, Happy days...
There was a lad i used to like who lived in Middle Acre, Malcolm Docker was his name, & I had a friend that lived there too called Leonora Meakin..
I seem to remember " The big hole" contained an old mill which had been dug out,that's why the hole was so deep & wide..
I think the Mill Stores would have been named after Bartley Mill, ( but there were lots of Mills in the area) which there is information about online if you google it..
Thank you TQ for all your memories, I have many too, very happy memories of our childhoods, I wouldn't change them for the world & i'm so glad we grew up in those times...
 
Hi Lesley60, and yes happy days indeed.

I've absolutely no doubt that we would both have had fun on that same rope ... plus it seems impossible that our paths wouldn't have touched there at some time. Maybe a time machine would show that we had both been in the same small group of children playing around each other at times with our separate friends ... cool! :)

I hadn't heard the phrase Marl Pit, nor was I aware that that land had come about in that way, though I have always known of marl as a clay product since coming across marl clays in pottery classes at school, and then later in connection with bricks and their manufacture and performance, colourings etc when moving on in to architecture.

But of course, it makes perfect sense: and hopefully the right attentions were given to the landfilled excavation there ahead of squeezing all those houses on it in later years.

I do remember there generally being an extra bonfire over on that land on Bonfire Nights, and I watched that as well as ours in the garden so had double the fireworks display!

I'm afraid I don't know the names that you mention, but if you ever went past a "Take a Few" box of apples in the front garden of a Middle Acre house on the way to visiting your friend Leonora, that would have been us as we had three apple trees in the back garden that always produced far more fruit than we could eat even when baking pies for everybody and their friends! Mum just put out a box when appropriate rather than have to throw them away.

Maybe you went to Bartley Green Grammar for Girls? Might have known Jenny Arnott-Job if so? Or maybe Beverley Evans if the timings worked differently? Jenny and I were were girlfriend/boyfriend for just a short time, it was she who lived in Mill Lane on my errand-route to the Mill Stores :), right across from the entrance in to Senneleys Park until she moved away. Bev was simply my young-teens first-love, and my heart broke when life and all the growing up we both had ahead got in the way.

But regardless, yes I couldn't agree more ... my childhood was one big constant happy place, and things then were so much more "comfy" in many ways that today people throw up their hands in horror just to think of. We may not have seen it at the time, though we did I think appreciate what it brought every day, future memories that now are treasures worth more than all the Gold in The World.

But I still wouldn't trade them in, The World doesn't have anything of greater value that I would want to have instead anyway!

It was indeed the very best time to be growing up, and I'm so glad that you know that first-hand too.

TQ
 
I remember there was a grocery store in Stonehouse Lane. It was nearer Jiggins Lane than Barnes Hill. It was almost opposite Bartley Green Girls school which was probably built in the 1950's. It may even have been a post office. Was it called Stonehouse Stores, I'm not sure now.
Don't know if someone else has said this but we used to call that grocery store "the Mill Stores" and I believe that it was run by someone called Philpott.
 
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