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searching for the WW1 battalion using only name service number and regiment

M

mick davis

Brummie babby
Hi Birmingham History people
I'm new to this forum and to the techniques of tracing WW1 soldiers. I know Grandad was a private in the Royal Warwicks because I have seen his Pip Squeak and Wilfred medals. I have his service number, rank, regiment, full name, date and place of birth. I would like to know which Battalion he was in and find his service record. I know Terry Carter is a contributor to this website and have ordered his book about the Birmingham Pals. I have looked online at the National Records Office search programme but it came back "No information", so I have sent an email enquiry to the National Records Office asking them to look for me.
Can anyone suggest any other ways of tracing his unit and his record of service? Is there any other source or kind of record I should be looking for?
 
Mick, Welcome to the forum, you might like to publish any information you have on here and I'm sure someone will be able to help, if you don't want to post those details on the open forum, feel free to send me the details by IM (click on my name top of this post) and I will see what i can do.

Colin
 
Unless you give us the full details we won't be able to help you. If you do not know which battalion he might be in one of 13 battalions who weren't the three City Bns/Bham Pals - 14th, 15th, 16th Royal Warwicks.
 
Hi Colin and Alan
Thanks for trying to help: never having used a blog before I keep making mistakes entering messages: I hope you get this one.
My Grandad's full name was John Percy Davis, and the letters engraved on the back of his 1914-15 Star show J P Davis, private in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment, service number 2532. He may have called himself Jack (one of his sons was named John but known as Jack) or Percy. Later in life (he died in 1957) his firends called him Percy. His birthcert shows that he was born on 14 June 1884 in Aston Manor, district of Erdington in the county of Warwick, and as far as I know he lived in Birmingham all his life. He would therefore have been 30 years of age when the war started.
If you can suggest anything else I should try to find out, I will do so.
 
Mick, On his medal card on Ancestry it shows him as Corp of Hussars H236503 it also gives RWR 2532 on the top of the card this number has a cross with 4 dots around it which I understand was a proof readers symbol for a mistake.
On the National Archives Medal Roll he is listed by the Hussars number, a copy of this is available on line direct from N A for £3.36 might be worth applying for this.
I will have another look for you later.

Colin
 
Hi Colin
Thanks, I spent ages trying and failing to use the National Records office search program.
Hussars is a surprise - can you tell me a weblink I can use to apply for the National Archives Medal Roll listing? Would that information get me closer to tracking down his unit and what they did/where they served?
 
Colin beat me to it partially.

1. 1911 census. Is this him? John Percy Davis married to Lily in c1905 living at 220, Park Lane, Aston Manor. He 26, she 25. Worked as a bricklayer's labourer. Three children - Ernest Frederick 5, Florence 4, Fred 1. All born Aston Manor.

2. His Medal Index Card - Enlisted 31.8.14. Discharged 31.12.17. Royal Warwickshire Regiment, Private, 2532. Although there is a small red cross against Royal Warwickshire Regiment it gives a date of entry to theatre of war as 22.3.15. The Gloucestershire Hussars served at Gallipoli after landing at Alexandria on 24.4.15. But this 22.3.15 date was the date that the four Warwicks 1st Line Territorials crossed to France - 1/5th, 1/6th. 1/7th and 1/8th. The first two were Bham battalions based at Thorp Street, the 1/7th were county Territorials - Warwick, Leamington, Rugby etc etc - and the 1/8th were Aston-based at Villa Park. The latter is a good bet. After Gallipoli the Gloucs Hrs joined 1st Mounted Brigade in Imperial Mounted Division (Feb 1917) renamed Australian Mounted Division (June 1917). Latter not totally Aussi. He is likely to have served in 1/1st Gloucs Hussars after being sent back to England at some point with a wound/sickness from the Warwicks in France and then re-allocated to the Gloucs Hrs who served in Palestine inc. the 1st Battle of Gaza 26.3.17. His Hrs number was H/236503

3. His Silver War Badge roll entry. Only cites the Hrs and repeats enlistment and discharge dates. Confirms he served overseas. I have failed to work out from the codes whether he was finally discharged due to a wound or sickness.
 
Hi Alan
Yes, that's my Grandad, and my Gran Lil, and my uncles Ernie and Fred and my Auntie Floss. Lump in my throat as I type: my Dad was born in 21 and Lil went on to bear 10 children to "Perce" as he liked to be called. You can guess which football club we all support.

I think 31.8.14 was the outbreak of war, wasn't it? 30 years old, 4 kids and he volunteered for the Army. I am ignorant of the terminology, please excuse me asking daft questions. What does "1st Line Territorials" mean, and what do the numbers 1/8th mean? If he was in 1/8th based at Villa Park that's a fascinating coincidence given the family football loyalites. How did you work out he was in the Gloucester Hussars? Weren't there Worcester and Warwickshire Yeomanry based in Brum? And are there any records which show where Warwicks 1/8th served in France?
 
Villa Park A former Aston Lower Grounds building in 1914 was shared as the Drill Hall of the 1/8th Royal Warwicks and the club.

Forgot to say -there is no surviving service or pension record.

Territorials founded 1908 with the four battalions mentioned. Were for home service only. When asked to volunteer for France in the autumn of 1914 as and when needed some did not for a variety of reasons e.g. having a young family. They then became the beginnings of the 2nd Line Territorials - 2/5th, 2/6th. 2/7th and 2/8th. So the originals were now the first line Territorials. Both were topped up with new recruits like John. War broke out 4.8.14. Ignore Corps of Hussars which is a generic name. In every county there were mounted Territorials from 1908 called the Yeomanry. Some were at some stage also given the name Hussars. All pre-war Territorials were of course part-timers. Drill Hall one night a week, a camp in the summer. His Medal Index Card states Gloucs Hrs. You do not need to get this or Silver War Badge entry unless you really want as I have given you a summary. I accessed them via Ancestry. Not sure where Worcs/Warks Yeomanry were based without looking it up.

1/8th to France as stated.
April-July - around Ploegsteert and the Douve south of Ypres for trench initiation
July 1915-June 1916 - holding the line on the Somme (pre-battle) near Hebuterne and Fonquevillers.
1.7.16 Attacked the Heidenkopf German defensive position. 230 men killed.
27.8.16 Attack on Constance Trench on the Somme. 68 killed.
Stayed in and around the Somme until the end of the battle (mid-November) ending up around Le Sars and Martinpuich.
Either side of New Year - holding the line around Biaches near Peronne.
Then followed up the German retreat to the Hindenburg Line.
May-July 1917 - Line holding in a quiet sector near Bapaume
July-October 1917 Involved in the Third Battle of Ypres (by then he had probably left for the Hrs
 
His initials, surname and number were listed in the Casualty list in the Birmingham Daily Post that was published on 19 August 1916.
Due to very large casualty figures and the confusion in collating names of men who were missing, killed or wounded there is a strong possibility that the actual date of wounding was the 1st July 1916. I would agree with Alan, because he lived in Aston, he no doubt was wounded with the 1/8th Warwicks in the attack on the Heidenkopf Redoubt. The area adjacent to Serre Road Cemetery No.2, on the Somme.

Terry
 
Thank you Alan and Terry for all your research and your helpful replies. I had read about the 1st day of the Somme, and I am frankly amazed that anyone went over the top on that day and survived. It looks likely then that my Grandad did both. That was the kind of information I was after. I am a teacher and expect there to be much WW1 History work rquired next year, the centenary of the start of that war. I think the children will be more likely to connect with the past through the viewpoint of 3 generations of the same family. My Dad was wounded serving in the 8th(Midland) para battalion on D-Day. Coincidentally, he was posted to Palestine, 30 years after his Dad, it would seem.
 
Hi

I wonder if anyone can help? I am also new to this research.

My Grandfather, Alfred George Bromley was a sergeant in the Royal Warwickshire Regiment. His number was 240035. Family information is that he was in the 6th battalion, based at Thorp Street, Birmingham, that he was a hostler and that he continued in the T.A. after the war. From his war medals he was awarded the Victory Medal (L/104 B5) and the British War Medal but not the Star. He was also awarded the T.Eff (AO 236 of 1918)

The questions that I am looking for answers to are:-

1) Since he did not receive the Star, does this mean that he did not go to France in 1915? If this is the case was he therefore in the 2/6 Battalion who did not go until 1916?
2) Is it possible to identify which battalion Alfred was in, from his number?
3) What do the references mean after the medals on the medal Roll?

I'd be grateful for any guidance

Thank you

Peter
 
Thanks for the information regarding Medal cards. I'll follow that up.

My main search is to try to confirm which regiment he was in via his service number. do you know if this is possible?

Regards

Peter
 
I'm sorry, I don't but there are 2 or 3 people on here who know a good deal more who might.
 
His medal card on Ancestry confirms the details you already have, it has no information regarding Battalion, and no entry in the theatre of war/date which would suggest that he only served in U.K. There is no service or pension records for him they would have been burnt during WW2.
Do you have an address for him during the period then I can check the Absent Voters List there may be more information on there.

Colin
 
Colin B said:
His medal card on Ancestry confirms the details you already have, it has no information regarding Battalion, and no entry in the theatre of war/date which would suggest that he only served in U.K. There is no service or pension records for him they would have been burnt during WW2.
Do you have an address for him during the period then I can check the Absent Voters List there may be more information on there.

Colin
Click to expand...

Thanks Colin

Doesn't the War & Victory Medals awards mean that he served in a theatre of war? In 1906 he was in Alcester Street. After that he lived in Mary Street, Highgate Street and Wrentham Street, but I'm not sure of the dates for these last three addresses

Regards

Peter
 
He's listed on the 1918 Absent Voters List at 5 Court 9 Wrentham Street and gives 1/6th RWR.
Interesting in 1928-30 AVL there's a Alfred George Bromley ( the younger) ply/22770 Mne H.M.S. Warsprite.

Colin
 
Colin B said:
He's listed on the 1918 Absent Voters List at 5 Court 9 Wrentham Street and gives 1/6th RWR.
Interesting in 1928-30 AVL there's a Alfred George Bromley ( the younger) ply/22770 Mne H.M.S. Warsprite.

Colin
Click to expand...

Brilliant. Only problem is that the 1/6th RWR left for France in 1915 and presumably survivors received the Cross with the other two medals, whereas Alfred didn't. One option that I can think of is that he might have been transferred into 1/6th during 1916?

The other Alfred George was my uncle who eventually served on HMS Hood. He was injured and spent some time in hospital in Canada. I haven't been able to find him until now. Thank you!

Pete
 
I have a copy of the book the 2/6th RWR and have had a quick scan through it his name did not crop up.

he should have had a 4 figure service number also. The six figure service numbers were not introduced until 1917.

A picture of the NCO's of the 2/6th. Sorry no names with it.

Terry

His MID shows that he was awarded the
The Territorial Force Efficiency Medal was a medal of the United Kingdom awarded for long service in the Territorial Force. This award superseded the Volunteer Long Service And Good Conduct Medal when the Territorial Force was formed in 1908 following the enactment of the Territorial and Reserve Forces Act 1907, (7 Edw.7, c.9) which was a huge re-organisation of the old Volunteer Army and the remaining units of militia and Yeomanry. The TF was formed on 1 April 1908. The Militia were transferred to the Special Reserve rather than becoming part of the Territorial Force.
he criteria were for a minimum of 12 years service in the Territorial Force with war service counting double. Bars were awarded for further periods of 12 years. This medal was superseded by the Territorial Efficiency Medal when the Territorial Force was elevated to become the Territorial Army
 

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terry carter said:
I have a copy of the book the 2/6th RWR and have had a quick scan through it his name did not crop up.

he should have had a 4 figure service number also. The six figure service numbers were not introduced until 1917.

A picture of the NCO's of the 2/6th. Sorry no names with it.

Terry

His MID shows that he was awarded the
The Territorial Force Efficiency Medal was a medal of the United Kingdom awarded for long service in the Territorial Force. This award superseded the Volunteer Long Service And Good Conduct Medal when the Territorial Force was formed in 1908 following the enactment of the Territorial and Reserve Forces Act 1907, (7 Edw.7, c.9) which was a huge re-organisation of the old Volunteer Army and the remaining units of militia and Yeomanry. The TF was formed on 1 April 1908. The Militia were transferred to the Special Reserve rather than becoming part of the Territorial Force.
he criteria were for a minimum of 12 years service in the Territorial Force with war service counting double. Bars were awarded for further periods of 12 years. This medal was superseded by the Territorial Efficiency Medal when the Territorial Force was elevated to become the Territorial Army
Click to expand...

Thanks very much for the info and photo Terry.

So, since he only had one (6 figure) number, it looks likely that Alfred enlisted in 1917? The T.Eff criteria points to Alfred being in the TF either before the War or for some time afterwards, even with war service counting double.


From Colin's reply, above, Alfred was in the 1/6th in 1918 (Absent voters info).
He was 31 years old at the outbreak of war & had four children. If he was in the Special Reserve, were men enlisted on the context that they were not prepared to serve abroad, only to find that the need for men was so great that they were ordered to do so? Or is it possible that he was with a different Battalion prior to being transferred in 1916 or 1917?

Regards

Peter
 
A friend of mine has a group photograph of the NCO's of the 2/6th with names and I am waiting on him to find out if there is a Sgt Bromley on it.
Terry
 
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