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Sarah Bertha Porter Look Up Please

R

RJMCH25

proper brummie kid
Not sure how this works as I've only just joined! I'm trying to trace SARAH BERTHA PORTER who may be a relative. I've got the following details from Family Search and am trying to find how to look her up in the records for St Martin's Birmingham. Any help gratefully received!

Birth 2 Nov 1825
Christening 27 March 1826 St Martin Birmingham Warwickshire

Parents Joseph Porter & Elizabeth

I think she may have had a twin brother called Thomas. I may have them on the 1841 UK Census but after that I'm stuck so any info on christening / marriage / death would be great. I know she was definitely alive in 1837.

Many thanks in advance.
 
Your information on Sarah Bertha is correct:

Entry no 2367, 27th March 1826, born 2 Nov 1825, Sarah Bertha, dau of Joseph and Elizabeth Porter of Coleshill Street. Father was a Coach Trimmer

Sarag did not have a twin brother, but she did have a brother Thomas: Thomas was born 30 Nove 1822 and baptised on 26th December 1822. Remember that in some cases in the 1841 census ages were rounded down to the nearest five years, so several children could potentially have the same age.

Another sibling is Henry, born 25th Marach 1828 and baptised 1st September 1828 (still Coleshill Street and Coach Trimmer)
 
Many thanks for this. Any ideas as to how I can search the church records for Sarah's marriage? I have inherited a piece of work she did and am trying to find out how she links to the family. Our family names in Birmingham are mainly Liney, Sandilands and Robinson.
 
Here are a few more baptisms:
Joseph, bapt 16th June 1813
Mary, born 1st Nov 1818, bapt Aug 28th 1820
William {xxx?},born ??? Nov 1815, bapt Sept 1st 1817 [O can't make out the characters that I've replaced with ??]
Eliza born 29 June 1830, bapt Dec 29th 1834

Marriage on 29th Feb 1808 of Joseph Porter and Elizabeth Goodwin, by Banns. Both signed name and witnesses were James (?) Goodwin and Mary Goodwin
 
Unless you know for certain which church she married in and an approx date, it'll be a huge job and you'll have to do it at the library using the microfilms.

As she was born in 1825, I've had a look for a marriage on FreeBMD - nothing for a Sarah Bertha at all. IGI throws up a Sarah marrying an Edwin Leadbetter in St George's in 1845, so if I were you I would have a look at that marriage record at the library - if the father's name isn't Joseph, you can eliminate that one.
There are various other possibilities registered in the Kings Norton district in the likely period, but there's no way of knowing which could be yours unless you have a possible name for the groom.
 
You are amazingly kind! Where do you get at all these records? I have had a look at the Porter Leadbetter marriage but it is not the right one - that Sarah Porter is a widow & father's name is incorrect. I've been trawling the siblings to see if there is any connection there. Many of them seem to be living around the same area as our family but can't work out the link! I shall keep detecting in the hope we can find her - could be a long job. Thank you so much again.
 
In the St Martin's registers, there are a couple of other couples that were having babies around the same period as Joseph & Elizabeth's children were born. Have you had those baptisms/marriages?
 
No I haven't had any other names - I started with the name Sarah Bertha Porter on a sampler she embroidered when she was 12. From the sound of the wording something sad may have hit the family around that time & I'm wondering if it was the death of the mother & / or child(ren). Are the St Martin's registers available on line? If so how do I find them?

I've traced some of the siblings through the census records but Sarah does not appear to be with any of them on census day. One of her brothers ended up in the work house while others were employed in trades sometimes associated with Birmingham.

Once again, thanks for your help & advice. I never expected to get so much information so quickly!
 
OK, I'll have a look through and get back to you later. I did spot some burials and other marriages, that might fit.
 
Had a quick look at death registers on line & found Sarah Porter death in quarter Oct - Dec 1845. Registration district is Birmingham. Had to do supper then so have not checked up to 1851 - she is on 1841 census but not 1851 (as Porter anyway). Will do more tomorrow when house is quiet again! R
 
1845 death isn't the Sarah Bertha Porter you are looking for: burial at St Martin's of Sarah Porter of Moor Street, aged 65 years on Nov 2nd 1845
 
Burial of Elizabeth Porter, wife of Joseph of Jennens Row, buried 2nd April 1837 age 47 years (St Martins). Sarah Bertha would have been 12 at this time, so that fits in with your post #8
 
Burial of Joseph on Feb 4th 1855, aged 78 years (St Martins)

This and the burial of Elizabeth + the baptisms I added early tie in with the two census entries I have found:
1841 at Colesill St with Thomas, Sarah, Henry and Eliza (is this the one you found?). Presumably Joseph (b1813), Mary (b 1818) and William (b 1815) are elsewhere
1851, lodging at 12 Loveday St (occ Coach Trimmer)

I've looked through all the marriages at St Martin's, but there is nothing for Sarah. And there doesn't seem to be a suitable death either. I can only think that she is one of the marriages in the King's Norton Reg district. It might be worth looking through the male names on those pages to see if any of them ring any bells. Unfortunately, you can no longer order certs where you can stipulate that it is only to be supplied if the father's name is Joseph.

Let me know if you need any further help.
 
Many thanks for all your help - you have been very generous with your time & effort. Will let you know if I succeed at all!

The death of the mother would fit with the sampler & the census entries you mention are the ones I have. I'll try to find the Kings Norton marriage records and have a trawl there.
 
I'm afraid that there is no easy way to get the registration district could cover a large number of churches.

You cannot see the records for a registration district online. You will probably need to pick which you think are the most likely and order the certificate (I would use the Bham reg office though as they are quicker). See https://www.birmingham.gov.uk/cs/Satellite?c=Page&childpagename=SystemAdmin%2FPageLayout&cid=1223092615075&packedargs=website%3D1&pagename=BCC%2FCommon%2FWrapper%2FWrapper&rendermode=live for details.
An initial email to John Yates (the archivist at the Reg office) explaining clearly who you are looking for and the parents name and time frame may be worthwhile. Certainly until the rules changed (across the country) he would probably have been able to help and tell you which cert to order. I'm not sure how much freedom he has in what he is allowed to offer now.

Good luck!
 
Hi, I just spoke to John Yates & he was lovely & very helpful. He suggested I trawl the BMD and then send him a list & he will check them out for me. I'll keep you posted! I have made more progress in the last 24 hours thanks to you than I have in a long time. You are a star!
 
Success! Today's post brought the marriage and death certificates for Sarah. These plus some trawling lead me to believe she was my Great Great Great Grandmother. However, I need to firm up the details to give this certainty and was wondering if you could look in the St Martin's records for me.

Sarah married William Palser in Harbourne in 1844. On the 1851 census they are listed as living at Lower Essex Street in Birmingham. I believe William Palser was christened at St Martin's on 5 June 1820 and was wondering if he had his children christened at the same church. The 1851 Census lists John (b.1849) as the son of William and Sarah but there is no mention of a daughter. My GG Grandmother was Elizabeth Palser (b.1846). By the 1881 Census she was married to Alfred Liney and living at Upper Thomas Street with him and their children. Also listed as living at the house is John Palser (b. 1849) and he is described as brother-in-law.

If you have time I would be very grateful if you would check out Sarah and William's children in the St Martin's records. Sarah died in 1855 and the cause of death was ovarian tumors and enteritis. She was 30 years old and died at Moseley Street, Aston.

Many thanks for your help. Without you and John Yates I'd still be at square one!
 
I'm away until Sunday afternoon. If someone else hasn't done the lookups, I'll do them when I get back.
 
Sorry, I did try to post yesterday evening. I typed it all and then forgot to send it before I switched tabs!
So, here goes again….This may make things more complicated, or it may clarify things for you.
---------------------

I can find two distinct Palser couples having children and baptising them around the time you have indicated:
  • James and Sarah Palser of Hurst Street/Lower Hurst Street, who had three girls baptised in 1847 (twin girls, Pateince Eliza and Martha, born March 1846) and 1849 (Sarah Ann, baptised privately). They also had a another girl, Elizabeth Jane (b Oct 1842, bapt Nov 3rd 1842) when they were living in Bishop Street. This baptism is indexed under Palsor.
  • Able and Martha of Lower Kent Street, who had quite a few children baptised between 1844 and 1864
Both fathers were Bit and Brace Makers
​
I can’t find any reference to William & Sarah Palser at St Martin's. If either of these are ‘yours’ then I’ll sort out the full details for you. However, I don’t think these are the families you are looking for (at least not at the moment).

Next step.......

If you put John Palser into IGI, you get the following:
  • John Edward Palser, b 6 Feb 1849,, christened 12 Mar 1849, Saint Phillips, mother Sarah, father William
I suspect he is yours?
​
Now click on the reel number and search for other Palsers and you get:
  • Sarah Elizabeth Palser, born 19 Oct 1846, baptised 9 Nov 1846, parents William and Sarah Palser, Saint Phillips
Is this what you were looking for?
​
You also get Edwin Palser, born 16 Mar 1838, baptised 23 Apr 1838, St Phillips to William and Sophie Could this be yours as well - check William’s marriage cert – was he a widower?

I hope that this is what you are looking for? I don't think that the St Phillips records for that period are available unless you go to the Central Library. I may well be going there at the end of the week, so if I am, I'll check them for you.

Lesley
 
Thank you for this. I haven't got to grips with the IGI thing yet. I believe you are right about the Palsers above. I do not think James & Sarah or Able and Martha are "mine" However, the John Edward and Sarah Elizabeth do fit with what I have found out. Sarah Elizabeth's dates seem to match those of my GG Grandmother however, her marriage certificate is listed on the roll as Elizabeth Palser (I have cross matched it to my GG Grandfather on the roll so I am sure I've found the right one!). I have ordered the certificate from the Birmingham Register Office but it has not yet arrived. Maybe she was always known by her middle name - not uncommon in our family. If you are at the Central Library and have time I would be very grateful if you could check them out.

As regards William and Sophie Palser - William Palser is listed as a Bachelor on the marriage certificate to Sarah Porter in 1844 & his given occupation is Brassfounder. I have had a look at the 1841 and 1851 census returns for Edwin Palser and on both he is with William and Sophie along with his many siblings (10 of them on the 1851 return). I don't think he is ours unless he is a cousin. I'll keep a note of the name & entry in case I ever get as far as looking for cousins.

You have been a great help in solving the family mystery. My father and his cousin are very grateful to you as well.

Kind regards, Rachel
 
I think that the following baptisms from the St Phillips microfilm at the Central Library should help you:

John Edward Palser born 6 Feb 1849, baptised 12 Mar 1849, son of William (brass caster) and Sarah. Abode: Lower Essex Street
Sarah Elizabeth Palsar born 19 Oct 1846, baptised 9 Nov 1846, daughter of William (brass caster) and Sarah. Abode: Ason Street

Don't worry too much about the fact that it appears that she used Elizabath at her marriage - my great uncle was baptised and registered as Henry Frederick. By the time he got married he was calling himself Thomas Henry (taking his father's first name, though I have know idea why as after the mother died, his father had abandon all the children)

BTW, I came across some Palsers whilst I was looking for something at Aston Juxta:
marriage of William Hands Palser to Mary Ann Piercy 6 Apr 1853
burial of Sarah Palser, wife of William, Oct 17th 1855, aged 30 years

​
Hope this is useful

Les
 
This is all very interesting & thank you once again for all your efforts on my behalf. I think John and Elizabeth you mention are definitely "mine" & the burial at Aston Juxta fits with the death certificate of Sarah Bertha.

I have obtained the marriage certificate of Elizabeth Palser and Alfred Liney (my GG Grandparents) & her father is listed as William but, surprisingly, is not noted as deceased. I haven't managed to find him on the census returns and this children (John & Elizabeth) are usually with relatives so I had guessed he too had died early. Another mystery for another day I think!

On the name change thing my grandfather was always known as Ken (Kenneth Frederick) but when he went to school at the age of 5 they had to get his a copy of his birth certificate and discovered the great aunt who had registered him had managed to transpose the names and his legal name was Frederick Kenneth! Quite a surprise for his parents!

I hope you had a good day in the archives. When my children are bigger maybe I'll get the chance to go & I hope I will be able to help fellow searchers the way you have helped me.
 
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